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10/12/2015 - Minutes SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 12, 2015 Committee Members Present Committee Members Absent Jerod Johnson, Chairman Mark Vlasic, Vice Chairman Terry Wright(Via Teleconferencing) John Phillips Anne Oliver Other Interested Parties Present Steven Cornell n''h"Cup&C°`""k`°i1Di°n C°n9erbancp& QL°mmittee Ralph Stanislaw, Archiplex Group �Isr ®ve� Preston Croxford, Archiplex Group alatob Ex-Officio Members Present Ken Garner, Ken Garner Engineers Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities m,t,. 11/9/2015 Carl Leith, SLC Planning/Preservation Jaysen Oldroyd, SLC Attorney's Office \ j Alden Breinholt, SLC Public Services Jeff Sokol, SLC Engineering Joan Swain, SLC Facilities Jerod Johnson welcomed everyone to the meeting and began with a roll call: Jerod Johnson, Chairman; Terry Wright, Committee Member, (participating remotely by telephone conferencing); Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities; Stephen Cornell, Committee Member; Karl Leaf, SLC Planning/Preservation;Anne Oliver, Committee Member; Preston Croxford, Archiplex Group; Ralph Stanislaw, Archiplex Group; Ken Garner, Ken Garner Engineering;Jeff Sokol, SLC Engineering; John Phillips, Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd, SLC Attorney's office. Jerold noted that there is a quorum present tonight, which includes Terry Wright's participation remotely by telephone conferencing, so we can make and approve motions and so forth. Agenda Item 1: Review and Approval of the September 14, 2015 Minutes. Jerod Johnson asked the Committee Members to take a minute to quickly review the minutes that have been presented. Terry asked if Joan got the answers to the questions she emailed to the committee regarding the first two motions made in the minutes. Jerod explained that he had answered Joan's questions to the best of his ability and memory. Joan confirmed that his answers confirmed her questions and are reflected in the minutes as presented. Jerod noted that a lot of the discussion last month revolved around trying to locate a copy of the master plan from the 1980's. Jim Cleland was asked if anything was ever located. Jim explained that the 0 & M's had been found and there are probably six or seven volumes. Jim reported that he scanned and emailed the copy about the landscaping and all of the exterior landscaping maintenance to everyone. Jerod and Steve both said they don't think they received it. Jim said he will send it out again, and explained that it will come as a fat file and they will get an invitation to accept it and if you accept the invitation it will give you a link to down load it and will let Jim know that you received it. Jerod asked if anyone wanted to put forth a motion with respect to the minutes from last month. Anne Oliver motioned that the Committee accept the minutes from Monday, September 14, 2015. 1 Steven Cornell seconded the motion. Jerod asked if anyone had any further discussion relative to the minutes. There was none. Jerod called for a vote. The Committee voted unanimously to accept the minutes. Agenda Item 2: Pedestrian Lighting Update—Washington Square—Jeff Sokol, SLC Engineering; Preston Croxford and Ralph Stanislaw from Archiplex Group and Ken Garner, Garner Engineering. Ralph Stanislaw explained that the Committee had asked them to go back to the historic photographs and try to find out what kind of historic precedents there were for light poles "back in the day". He explained what they have done was to create some exhibits, including 4 copies that were passed to Committee Members. The first sheet includes some of the better historic photos they found with better light fixtures images. The picture with the horse and buggy in it was the most high resolution image and on the right hand side is a very clear shot of the 1905 fixture as indicated by the date on the horse and buggy photo. He noted that this fixture doesn't have some of the attributes that Facilities is looking for, but it is seriously useful as an example of the character of the original light post that was out there. It is surprising the way it kind of necks down at the top almost looking like a candlestick holder at the top and they wondered if it wasn't originally a gas lamp pole that was converted to electrical use. We can't find any evidence that there were ever gas lamp here, but since this was in the time that technology was changing and electricity coming in or this may have been an expedient way to get a light pole up and use parts from a gas lamp. The cap on top looks like it may have been a vent cover for possible overheating with the electric bulb in there or maybe it was part of the original gas lamp if this was originally a gas lamp. It is a very unusual looking fixture and quite interesting so we did take it upon ourselves to do a sketch-up model with several versions, noting that two on the far right of the sketch up copy are an attempt at doing a historic copy of this. Preston Croxford explained that this exercise was done partly to show that potentially just by having photographs they could get someone to replicate this fairly closely and do a custom fixture to match what was there; however,this would come with additional costs and additional time. Ralph pointed out some other important considerations as well such as: • The aspect ratio of the base is very narrow and even today there are problems with these poles being damaged by objects bumping into them. • Looking at the historic picture, there's no base cover to cover anchor bolt supports which we'd want to have to get proper anchoring into concrete. • There is no electrical junction box cover or anything in there to deal with electrical requirements. • The City wants to do electrical outlets at the top of each fixture for events so that they are up and out of harms- way and to prevent tampering, but available for events out on the lawn. Ralph noted there are a number of things that would have to be done to adapt it to modern needs and to properly protect it at the base from impacts. They started looking at base designs and wondering what would be the right thing to do. Items they began focusing on were: • The light poles flanking the east and west entrances, which have a softened plinth base that's curved a bit. • Some elements in the fountain that also have a rounded and slightly eased base that hold up fountain features, • Other older fixtures or elements that sit in the lawn and hold up signs, most of them have rounded bases so we were preferring to recommend a rounded base solution for this concrete base because that's the greatest precedence out there. In the sketch-up alternatives, the one in third from the right has a small rounded base that we would use in lieu of the bottom section of the original fixture. The height would retain the original scale overall but it gives the support. We would try to make that base just large enough to properly protect the anchor bolts and give proper structural connections to have electrical go through it. This gives a pretty nice proportion for doing a replicated fixture. However, there are other difficulties with doing pure replicas. Issues of timing and having molds and mockups made and all done within the time available as well as future replacement issues such as how long does it take to get more of these made. 2 • We then took on the task of trying to find something using existing materials out of existing fabrication companies. • We did go to Sternberg and looked at their materials and on the far left of your drawing, the 2nd in is a Sternberg version that we just mocked-up using parts and pieces and using their 8 foot pole with the standard pieces that it comes with. • We added their standard planter arm that seems to have the most detail and then added a sphere on top. It does pinch down more than what is in the image shown, but it actually has a pretty nice top to the connector that pinches down a little more like the historic one. • Most of the others, today, have very large supports for the globes and I was very pleased that there was a small one like this. I think we could do our best to find parts and pieces that get us into the flavor of what was there originally, but we obviously look to you for comment on that. This would allow us to go with off- the-shelf parts and pieces. • What's missing from this is the cap for the globe and Sternberg only offers white, either acrylic or polycarbonate globes, which would be comparable to what's there on the two sides of the building and the existing fixtures are white globes which seemed to have yellowed more on the East side than the West(the bottom row of the existing pictures and the top row is west). • It is also interested to discover that the East and West fixtures are different from each other. You have a really rounded one with soft and gentle curves on the West, which I believe was the original prime entrance to the building, and then on the East side, maybe they couldn't find that same fixture or they elected to go a different way, this is a little more angular and little deeper detail, more relief. I could not find images of these fixtures in the historic photographs as I was trying to see them in the original photographs and wondered if perhaps they were not there originally. • Finally, we put them into perspective views. ■ The farthest left is the current fixture. ■ The second from the left is what we came to you with last meeting although missing arms. ■ The two right ones are the two latest versions and they are gray because we heard that you liked the idea of perhaps using just unfinished aluminum and not actually painted so we went with sort of a gray image to sort of replicate that, but of course, you can get all sorts of paint colors. An idea might be that maybe it's something similar to the Bettina of the existing fixtures next to the building that would be appropriate. • On the mocked-up copy you can see that the globe on the lamp second from the right has a little more transparency and then we've got the opaque globe on the far right. • The Sternberg piece might be a little bit taller than the historic, but we need to get all the finite details, but I think we are in the right range. Comments and Questions and Answers: Q: When you have a clear globe and use an LED light would something have to be put in the globe for the light to shine on to look like an element inside? A: What we have depicted on the far right of the sketch-up models are the two different light sources: one is a more traditional lamp inside and the far right is the LED. There is a vertical version of LED light that has more of a horizontal component and not much of a vertical, but it does have more modern look but it does occupy the same space roughly as the historic fixture did. C: There are basically two ways to look at these light fixtures, daytime and at night. This committee is primarily concerned with the daytime and how it physically looks. Is it handsome? Is it historical? If we go with a clear glass globe, which it appears the historical one is, then, you are faced with some kind of prismatic interior sleeve because LED is a point source and you have to spread it out somehow. Steinberg provides a similar like this on their HID fixtures. 3 They actually put a cylinder within the globe that looks kind of like a clear prismatic cylinder that helps diffuse the light becoming really a cylinder source within it. That's what you'd have to do with an LED source with this type of fixture. Q: Couldn't you just put a diffusing lens over the source. Not a prismatic, but a flat lens. A: There are two types of lens. One is more of an opal/smoked type lens that would not necessarily be prismatic, but more of a glow. This is certainly an option. The other option is like what is currently on the steps with more of an opal look on the outer shell. If we went with the opal look on the outer shell, it's going to hide all the inside components and it in itself becomes the diffuser. Q: What about the amount and quality of the light that is coming out. Last month there was some discussion about the LED's being so bright that half of them had to be turned off. Could these lights be adjusted and do we have City standards about Night-Sky and other things like this that we are trying to meet. A: Night Sky was something new in the 70's and was not here a hundred years ago. Most of these globe fixtures will not necessarily meet the International Dark Sky Institute standards or the IASNA standards for Dark Sky. Because there's some component that is going to go up, there are things we can do such as the interior sleeve to spread the light out. Old globes prior to the 1960's just directed half the light up and half down and you would have half your light wasted, so there's an energy efficiency in doing that as well. Technology has come a long way and one of the cool things about LEDs is that it is controllable; meaning that one of the concepts in dark sky is that at 11:00 p.m. we can shut off some of the lights. The best astronomy happens in the early morning, so if you can cut down half your lights at 11:00 pm to midnight Led is very attuned to that because you can actually cut it down by 50% light and leave all the lights on for example. Q: What about the quality of the light? The historical lights would have been kind of a warm incandescent type of light where an LED is going to be much colder. A: There are some color options that are available today and one of the best developments in the past few years is in terms of white light. They are getting that warmer look to them rather than that blue color light that you have here. There are different color renderings as we call it and all of them are going to be better than what is currently here. It's a very white light, but frankly, so were the gas lamps when they burned were a white light. Historically what happened is when metal halide came along it was kind of a warm white source, but it was still towards the blue-green. Ever since the Turn of the Century when we moved away from incandescent lighting and went into the HID (high intensity discharge) lamp sources, the low pressure and the high pressure cells were very yellow and so much so they made the trees look bad. The white LED's that we have today are going to make a very nice environment to be in and we'll have some green coming out of the trees and that will help warm it up. Q: Are you saying that with this clearer globe option we would use the prismatic system on the interior, but that we wouldn't with the second option as we would be relying on the globe sort of diffusing it? A: With the clear globe option you would see all the interior stuff, therefore we would need to put something inside like a cylinder or some lens material that would help block the light and hide the insides. The other option is the outer shell of the globe having more of an opal look which hides what is inside. The difference in the globes at the Turn of the Century is that they were tempered glass. There are still a few tempered glass manufacturers out there, but very few. Most of what you see around town is either polycarbonate lens or a virgin acrylic lens and the poly carbonate over time will start to yellow and it will warm up the light a little bit, but during the daytime you actually see the yellowing like in the two photographs provided. A true glass will cost more and we haven't found one yet that would be round. We know that"Hall of Fame" makes prismatic ones, but we haven't found a clear glass one. Q: Is the acrylic is less prone to discoloration from UV. 4 A: Yes, the acrylic is a little less prone to yellowing, but it is not as strong so anyone who takes a gun to it or throws a rock at it could break it easier than the polycarbonate. Q: Has there been any attempt at all to make them match the lighting that's on State Street? A: The streets are a completely different design than the park itself so we haven't really tried to match the streets because we wanted to keep it closer to the historical design. A: The acorn shape is similar to what is on the streets now at 4th and 5th south and the direction was to look at the more round, historical look. We need to make a decision, but if the decision was that the more acorn-type top would be more appropriate, we could put that on a base like we have now with and add the arms. For some reason the decision was made in the past to go to the acorn shaped globe by someone having decision making authority over Washington Square, but the round is what is represented in historic photos. Q: Is the outlet being shown at the very top of the pole in the mock-up a City requirement? Could we move it just below the arm so you can maintain that historic profile? A: As long as it is high enough that someone would need to have a ladder to get into the junction box and also keep water out of the conduit it is okay. Q: What the requirement of the arms is based on? A: The arms were visible in the historic photographs. We think they were there for maintenance purposes to lean your ladder up against. A: The arms are now used for banners and decorations. Q: The slender look of the lamp in the rendering second from the right is more appealing, but concerned about the slenderness as it relates to being impacted. How often are these poles impacted from activities on Washington Square? A: It's a placement I issue. We need to get them back to where a truck can't back up and knock it over. Right now, some are right up against the curb, so people's bumpers are hitting them. Especially on the 2 hour parking on the North where people parallel park, they pull up on side and then back in and if it is a pickup they get it every time. So if we can place the pole on the inside of the curb where hitting it is not possible, this is the best solution. A: The reason we want the concrete base on the bottom is to prevent damage so that if it is hit the vehicle is damaged and not the pole. A: Snow plow blades going down the side and the plow slides a little on the snow and the driver thinks he's a foot away from it but isn't and slides right into it so they found that they best practice is to literally put them about 2 or 3 feet away from the sidewalk and then placement near curbs, the only two methods you have is the taller concrete base that can be repaired and take the shock or you place them back. C: We would also like a mow strip around them too and that helps to keep the lawn mowing folks a safe distance away so they don't run over it with their mowers. This also cuts down on long term labor time because they don't have to trim. A: There is a square mow strip shown in the drawings. Q: If the fixtures are two feet away, does that still provide adequate light for the purpose of the lighting itself. 5 A: Today's modern fixtures we can do all kinds of things with throwing the light asymmetrically. With a globe like this you really can't. But the way these grounds are actually used, often times you are actually using the grass as well as the sidewalk so we're just trying to pump light in a circular pattern the best we can. We do have the option of spacing as we lay these out. In the historical photos there weren't very many lights. Back in those days, you were lucky to get them at major intersections. A: We don't need a lot of light. If we just get the 3 foot candles out there on a walking path at night, that's plenty for pedestrians. Jerod asked whether or not, from his point forward, do we, as a Committee, give our two-cents on which one we like the best. Anne asked if cost is an object. Jeff Sokol explained that cost is very much an object, noting that we have a rather tight budget. Steve Cornell asked the cost difference between the Sternberg light shown and the light 3rd from the right. What is the cost difference per unit? Preston said they could give us a cost today. He also mentioned that the other consideration is timing. Custom fabricators could take as long as 12 weeks. Steve commented that if we decide that replicating the historic fixture is the appropriate move, he thinks timing would just have to deal with that. Ken explained that anytime we go with the custom fixture it takes the manufacturers quite a bit of time to actually figure out what they are going to charge and his experience is that custom design costs really go up dramatically. Steve suggested that it really is a simple fixture when you look at it. Ken said the biggest issue today is the top cap because if you were to try to create a casting, most of the main manufacturers would have to create a mold and then they would have to go to casting company and because there are only going to do 40 or 50 of them the cost of casting is going to be very high. Right now we have been in the search with manufacturers asking if they have anything that looks like this. The idea of the time that Preston brought up is important. We've seen custom fixtures take 6 months. Jim Cleland suggested that with our timeline and our budget if we can find something that can work and could get us as close as we can that is what he would prefer. John Phillips asked if we would be able to replicate the pole with the little role of detail that goes around in the base part of the pole. Ken called it the reveal and said we probably could replicate that. He explained that he sort of decided on a non- decorative solution given that those are sort of the primary fixtures and the primary plinth so we backed off of adding any reveal detail. Jim commented that those are not reflected in the existing poles there or anything here. 6 Anne asked which ones they were talking about. Ken pointed out the little banding reveal on the plinth base sitting on the carved sandstone base. Anne suggested that what is most important from a board preservation idea is the slenderness of it and the simplicity, the little arms and the round globe at the top. These are the crucial elements we would have to capture. The problem with the stock pieces from Sternberg is that it gets quite chunky at the base although she does not know how to address that. This second lamp in from the left on the mock up is a better alternative because it's tall and it's slender and if you put the little arms on it and replace the acorn with a round globe you are capturing what the historic lamp was. So if we can't replicate, then do we just go with the general idea or do we compose it with pieces that are sort of correct but then the sum total is less satisfying or less characteristic of the original. Steve added that he thinks we have an opportunity to replicate what is the historic fixture but is also a simple fixture and really wants to take advantage of this even though there is a time issue he thinks it can be done instead of approximating it we just do the whole thing. Jeff Sokol suggested we could look for additional poles that would match that, but his big concern is if we do custom order something are we going to be in the same situation we are in now where what we need is unavailable to replace anything that is broken or that's had problems 15 or 20 years down the road. Steve noted that this would be a fear with any light fixture we choose. Jim noted that we also don't have a lot of space to store attic stock, but even one that is in stock on the shelf now is going to be outdated. Preston asked if we were to do custom would we purchase the custom cast with the fixtures so you own the cast so if you have to cast some later you would have it. Jim commented that the manufacturer that made the ones that we have now still has the cast so he does not know if the manufacturer would retain those casts and keep them on file or they keep the dimensions of the cast electronically. Preston said that what we would at least have is that we would be giving them the dimensions to create the cast so you'd at least have those to re-create the cast. Jim said this should be a question for our manufacturer, whoever it may be, as to how they handle the cast. Jeff suggested that the next step would be to take this to the Landmarks Committee, so any decisions we made with your guidance we will then take to Landmarks saying that this is what the Conservancy Committee feels is appropriate and then getting their approval on it. Ken suggested that we are really talking about different levels of commitment here, if we do the custom fixture it is going to take time on their part and the committee's part to work through the process to answer all the problems and concerns that Facilities has. The April 1st construction is not going to happen if we don't pass on it. Jim suggested that this may take until the fall before we can be under construction. He asked Alden if he foresees any problems if we did not start of the lighting construction until the fall of 2016. Alden replied that one of the reasons they were able to sell this to the Council was the need and expediency to get this project done because of the fact of the safety concerns and also the fact of the deteriorating lights conditions on Washington Square which also compromises safety and people can be hiding out in the shadows and so forth. 7 Expediency is why we asked for the funding now, but realize that there are parameters that you have to deal with to do it right. It was suggested it could be procured and waiting for fabrication, meaning you could still put it out to bid in the spring and you are still waiting for the fabricator to get the fixtures. A comment was made that you could do all the ground work to have it ready to go when the lights arrive. This is a problem due to warranty issues and not having any lights if bases removed. We would really have a short down time and be ready to go when the fixtures arrive cause you can't just take the poles down to soon because then you have no lights. The square really won't be available for construction until August 2016 Ralph suggested an idea with respect to the "off the shelf" idea, noting that one step they have not done yet is to do an accurate CAD drawing to the best of their knowledge and ability from the historic photograph and send it to 2 or 3 manufacturers saying : "This is the proportion that the owner/use group really wants. Using your components, what can you offer us that are the closest possible match out of your products? We make that effort and see what we get back and see if it's, in fact, maintaining the essential visual characteristic of the historical fixture. We haven't given the manufacturers that opportunity. We've been talking to them and asking for feedback, but working with catalog materials, not getting it into their tech shop. Preston agreed that we would really have to take it to that level before they would really be able to give us a pricing on what they have off the shelf, but also what it would cost to custom make it. Anne suggested that maybe that is the approach, you say here's this? How much to replicate this and how close can you get to this with stock parts? This gives us at least some information to work on, although we are again pushing the calendar just asking you to come up with these drawings and go this direction. She agrees with Steve that the preferred alternative is to replicate this and has no problem with a more durable concrete base. Jerod and John both agreed that the more durable concrete base is practical. Committee Members thanked the Lighting Team for the great job they have done in finding the images and replicating the fixtures, even as far as finding the Sternberg fixture. "This is really nice work and great progress as well as very helpful". Jerod suggested that the Committee needs to articulate a recommendation and have a motion on it as we move forward. Anne offered to make an attempt at a motion. She stated: " I would move in the topic of the Light Fixtures for the City and County Building Exterior lighting fixtures replacement project that we direct Archiplex Group to continue their research by consulting several manufacturers and presenting them with a CAD file or a measured approximation of the historic light post, which for Joan's information, is the 3rd from the right on the drawing titled "sketch-up model images and also ask them how close they can approximate that using parts already in stock similar to what has been done for the Sternberg Lighting standard base and 8'pole which is the 2nd from the left on the Sketch-up Model Images. And also to investigate options for either a clear or acrylic or polycarbonate globe on the top as a secondary question. Jerod noted that Anne has put a motion forth very well articulated and asked if anyone would like to 2nd that motion. Steve Cornell seconded the motion. Jerod asked if there is any further discussion. There was none. Jerod called for a vote. The Committee voted unanimously to approve the motion. 8 Ralph asked for confirmation to be absolutely clear for when he goes back to Lewis: Saying: It seems like you, as a Committee, prefer the historical look, but you're willing to consider a globe only if we can't find that historical look. Is that a good assessment? Anne replied: "I think what we are seeking is more information more than anything else. The preferred alternative would be this. Ralph. The pole itself, I think I'm square on, but the fixture head itself do we need to continue to explore that vented cap? Preston suggested that we need to explore getting the closest representation of all the parts and pieces of the historic fixture including the cap. Agenda Item 3: Committee Member Applicant Update—Joan Swain, SLC Facilities. Joan reported that the two new committee member applicants, Eva Rinaldi and Robert Pett are both scheduled for interviews with the City Council on October 20, 2015 and the Council will vote on them in the meeting at 7:00 pm that night. We should hear something within a few days after from the Mayor's office and we will call or email to invite them to November's meeting. Agenda Item 4: ADA Discussion Items—Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities. Jim explained that we've had a situation arise at the City and County Building where we have a handicapped employee on the 2nd floor so we had a meeting with our First Responders in the building to discuss the process when there's an emergency and an evacuation is necessary. From that meeting came some questions regarding ADA Evacuation Chairs for people with mobility problems in the event of a fire or other event where we cannot use the elevators. We have found a mobility chair on the State Contract that would meet the required criteria but storage of that chair would have to take place so we will have to custom build a box that stores and stows it away. The box we would build would be in the style of the oak Discussion Questions, Comments and Answers: Q: Why this chair is required? A: First of all, we have an employee that would have to be evacuated in the event of a fire and you could use the elevators. The only way you could get people out of the building is an evacuation chair—. It actually works kind of like those chair movers that the fire department uses to evacuate people out of buildings. The chair has kind of a track that folds down and then it rides and holds itself back with a brake and they can take the person down the stairs riding on this track vehicle with a brake that can maneuver stairs easily. It's not powered, it's powered by gravity, but when you are down at the bottom you fill the tracks up and tilt them back back and you can roll on the wheels. Q: Is this kind of an adapted version of a wheelchair? A: Yes it is. It just has the track part that drops down and it doesn't have sides on it so it is very compact and side weight so even a smaller person could easily use it to evacuate someone. The idea is you don't want to use anything that is too large or bulky because you have fireman and other people that need to use the stairs to go up and you have to be able to pass each other and not block traffic. This building is not as much as a problem because we have the wide stairs, but in other buildings it is a problem because you can't block traffic of other trying to enter or exit the building. It also has to be light enough so that it could be carried around easily to get it to the person's location easily. Q: Would there be a set of these purchased for each floor in the building and where would be place them? A: The plan is for one chair per floor and I'd like to place it similar to where we have the AED's and fire extinguishers, tucked away in that little corner and made into a box that matches the paneling with kind of a paneled door covering and stained to match the woodwork in the building so that it is kind of unobtrusive, almost like it was built to be there and then the door would just have a lock or handle on it so you could just pull it open and get it out. The chair stows away and is approximately 30 inches high and 24 inches wide. Q: Would this be a free-standing box? 9 A: We will attach it so it won't tip over, but it won't be built into the wall. It will be custom made in our shop and it will be marked with an "Evacuation Chair" sign on it. Q: Is it possible to have something mocked-up so we can see it and where it would go? A: My idea was to buy one and do a mock-up of a cabinet for it and put it in place and then have the Committee look at it so you can see one in place. This will also give us a better idea for size and everything else when we actually have one. Q: Does it need to be placed in the location you are talking about or could it be in a closet somewhere? A: If it's put in a closet, then everyone who could possible use it need to use it. I like to put all the emergency things in one place so that you don't even have to be the floor monitor to be able to grab it and use it. Same with the AED's, we've placed them out in a prominent place so that no matter who's there they can grab it and use it. Jerod suggested this is a good idea and we will defer until Jim has a mock-up to show the committee. Jim explained that the next item is that we would like to re-do the "Call" button and the pedestal that is located down by the entrance. The reason is that a person has been trying to use it that does not have full use of their hands, but they can use their arms and things like that. The current button requires getting in and around the barriers and is hard to articulate. I would like to make one that is a little easier to get to with an intercom button where all they would have to do is somehow push the button and have security on the other end with a phone. Jerod suggested that he and Charles Shepherd have previously looked at and this current call box maybe somewhat problematic with the potential motion of the building and could get sheared right off. He suggested rebuilding or doing a little bit different geometry is prudent. Jim commented that he likes the blue phone idea similar to college campuses where you pick up the blue phone and it calls dispatch immediately. For any kind of an emergency it could be picked up and access dispatch, but for building security they would just have to push the intercom button. Jerod asked if there was any further discussion on item number four. There was no further discussion. Agenda Item 5: Aluminum Can Recycling at Washington Square—Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities. Jim Cleland explained that there have been some constituents that have been concerned that we're asking all of our events people, all of our vendors, everybody else to recycle and Washington Square does not have any recycling bins on it. Q: Do they have to be blue? Jim deferred to Alden Breinholt, SLC Public Services, for more information. Alden provided pictures of trash receptacles and explained that the current receptacle out on Washington Square is a green, Victor Stanley wire basket-looking receptacle. The proposed receptacle is very similar, but has a recycle band and has a lid with it that only allows recyclables down through the top and the proposal is to put them in blue, if the Committee would allow us to put them in blue. Q: Do the green receptacles having signage on them saying "Trash"? A: No,just green paint. The proposed would have "Recycle" on the band as shown and then on the lid it actually says "Recyclables only". Q: Would you put them right next to trash cans so people could see the difference? A: Yes. The plan is to put a Recyclable can for every Trash can. Q: How many trash cans are there on Washington Square? A: There are actually 37 cans. Q: So we would have 74 trash cans out there? A: Yes and we want to put a concrete slab for it to sit on to match the ones already there. Q: Are there options such as trash on the top and recycling on the bottom? 10 A: They do have variations, but they don't fit in this park. The cans we have are accessed from a door in the front and have liners in them. Steve suggested his opinion is that the recycle can presented in the picture is acceptable, but in the green color, not blue. Jerod agreed, noting that the blue is the universal color for recycling, but doesn't fit within the context here. Jim asked if a blue band would be okay. Steve suggested just the green can with the Recycle band. Alden suggested that the recycling people would prefer the blue and Sustainability would want the blue, but if the Committee just wants the green with the recycle band. John Phillips asked if we could compromise and ask the people who make the cans to give us the green outside and the blue lid insert on the top. Anne commented about doubling the number of cans out on Washington Square and asked if we could reduce the number by half and scatter these throughout or one recycle for every two garbage can. Other Discussion Items include: • More recyclable cans would be better because the contents a lot less dense and recyclables are a lot more voluminous and will fill a recycle can faster than a regular trash. • Trash cans fill up fast. In time, once people are used to the recycling cans we could take away more trash cans, but for now they are all overflowing. • Some people are very recycle conscious and will find a can, but some people won't walk to find a recycling can they will just drop it anywhere or just in trash no matter what it is. • Our Homeless people on the Square put everything in trash cans. Pillows, sleeping bags blankets, etc. • If the cans are overflowing in a day, having less cans overall is not going to help the problem. • Will the scavengers be pulling aluminum cans out of recycle cans and make a mess? • The lids are an attempt to keep them from getting into the recycle cans and it does work. We use these lids in some of the cans downtown. • What if we try putting 18 or so cans out there and see what the use is? • What kind of recycling is done in the building? • Every work station has a blue can/bin and every quadrant has a larger bin. All the larger bins are emptied every other day by janitorial into the 220 gallons cans that out to the street for pickup. • Can we just try doing half the number and if it's just getting filled with random garbage then determine what to do. Jerod suggested that the general consensus seems to be to go with half of the proposed quantity in the green can with the blue lid and see what happens. Alden also suggested that the City would prefer to put the Salt Lake City logo on all the new cans on the band. Q: Do all the other cans have the logo. I think we should keep it as inconspicuous as possible and match the green that is already there. A: No. This would be new. C: I don't mind the logo. It sends the message that we are serious about this John Phillips motioned to have can that Alden presented in green with the inside lid being blue with the recycling band and I will support the Salt Lake City logo being on the recycle band. To be placed next to the existing garbage cans, but only half of them and I would suggest that we use the knowledge base of the refuse collection group to put them at the places where they will most likely be used. Jerod Johnson seconded the motion. Jerod asked if there is any further discussion relative to the motion and 2na 11 Anne Oliver suggested that we also include in the motion: We would also support adding the extra concrete pads. Jerod recounted the motion with the second and the amendment of adding the concrete base or slab similar to the existing concrete pad. Jerod asked if there was any further discussion. There was none. Jerod called for a vote. The committee voted unanimously to accept the motion. Terry Wright motioned to adjourn the meeting. John Phillips seconded the motion. Jerod called for a vote. The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn the meeting. 12