01/12/2015 - Minutes MINUTES
CITY&COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE
MONDAY,January 12, 2015, 4:00 P.M.
Committee Members Present: Committee Members Not Present:
Terry Wright, Chairman John Phillips
Robert Young &Mt"Pahrenv&Canal,li't'tbni John McCarthy
Collarbone!,&Slse Committee
Steve Cornellavint
Mark Vlasic Interested Parties:
Jerod Johnson, Vice Chairman mate: 3/9/2015 /Liberty Valentine, Washington Square Café
Bruce Brown, SLC Engineering
Ex Officio Members Present: _______7 Dawn Wagner, SLC Engineering
Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities
Sean Fyfe, SLC Engineering
Terry Wright welcomed everyone to the meeting and began with roll call. Terry noted that there is a
quorum present.
Agenda Item#1: Review and Approval of November 10,2014 Minutes.
Robert Young motioned to accept the minutes as presented and Jerod Johnson seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there were any comments regarding meeting minutes. There were no comments. The
committee voted unanimously to approve the November 10, 2014 Meeting Minutes.
Agenda Item#2: Washington Square Café Paint Request. Liberty Valentine, concessionaire of
Washington Square Café, expressed that to her knowledge the café has not been painted for
approximately 15 years and is in poor shape right now. She suggested this would be a good time to
lighten up the place, noting the existing paint is a monotone color called "Bracken Brown" and almost
everything is painted this same color. Liberty also explained that the lighting is so dim that anything that
would help to brighten it up would be a pleasant surprise for her as well as for the customers. Liberty
explained she has obtained the list of colors of original approved paints and has created some samples
which she presented for the committee's review. The following colors were provided and Liberty
explained her preferences are as follows:
1) Wall Color: "Porcelain", which Liberty explained is the same color as seen on the ceilings
through-out the building;
2) Trim Color: "Black Forrest", to highlight the base and trim;
3) East Accent Wall Color: "Green Suede", a color Liberty suggests is currently approved and
already used in the building;
4) Optional Color: "Glacier Gray"
5) Optional Color: Harvest Gold (not displayed but can be seen in the hall outside the Café.
Discussion, Questions &Answers:
• Are any of these colors specifically designated for"field"versus "trim"?
• Liberty explained these colors are identified according to the paint schedule provided to
her.
• Is this all paint-grade material or is some of it stain-grade base?
• Jim replied that he did not read the specs on the paint, but believes it is all paint-grade.
• Liberty explained that there is a black plastic chair rail or trim all around the counter and the
walls, which she said could open up a couple of options: 1) Create a two-tone effect with a tan
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color on the bottom below the chair rail and the porcelain above the rail; or 2) Paint the walls in
the Glacier Gray and paint the trim porcelain.
• When they specify the colors for trim versus the field, is there going to be heartburn if we take a
field color and put it in the field and vice-versa?
• Jim Cleland responded that the paint as it is now is what was called out in the spec when the
building was renovated.
• Terry Wright commented that he thinks that the paint colors that were selected way back
when were based on the historical colors that were utilized at the time.
• Is there picture rail or cornice?
• Liberty replied that there is a pillar, molding, chair rail, and some ornate molding in the bay
window.
• So is the color palette throughout the building a traditional palette for the period when the
building was built? Do you know when they did the renovation; did they actually go through
and figure out what the original paint colors were?
• Terry said that he could not remember. Jim said he had never seen in writing that stated
that they did that, but can't imagine that they didn't do some sort of research to determine
the colors.
• Liberty explained that there is another color on the ceiling in a 3 inch strip between the taupe
colored trim which is a pinkish color, which she suggested painting a harvest gold color like the
color that is out in the hallway.
• Is the lighting florescent or is it still all candescent?
• Jim explained that the lights in the wall sconces and the chandelier lamps were just replaced
with broad-spectrum LEDs.
Terry suggested the Committee walk down and take a look at the café.
Robert Young motioned that the Committee take a field trip and walk down to the café.
Mark Vlasic seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there was any further discussion on the motion.
There was no further discussion.
The Committee voted unanimously to approve the motion.
The Committee reconvened in the café and began by viewing the paint colors painted on a corner wall.
Discussion items:
• Terry suggested the discussion and motion be made here in the café so that the Committee
could point to and describe as we go through the process.
• A suggestion was made to leave the ceiling as it is with no changes.
• A question was raised about the color the base boards were to be painted.
• Liberty responded the black paint was her choice for the base boards, trim and moldings and
the white for the field.
• Robert suggested the black would be good on the base boards, but would be too much of a
contrast on the ceiling. He also mentioned keeping the ceiling as it is.
• Steve suggested pulling from Liberty's color palette and applying the "Glacier Gray" on the
molding and then applying the "Harvest Gold" on the flat piece while leaving the porcelain on
the barrel rolls.
Terry asked if we were ready to entertain a motion.
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Steve said he would make a motion and moved that we suggest putting 1) "Black Forest" on all the
wood trim, including the base board, all the windows, the column, the detailing on the mechanical
cover; 2) apply the "Porcelain" on field (walls) and the vaults on the ceiling; 3) applying the "Glacier
Gray" on the moldings and soffit; 4) doing the "Harvest Gold" on the flat work between the molds; 5)
on the brackets above the bay window alcove applying the "Glacier Gray" and bring in the "Harvest
Gold" accents on the panels that are already accented; 6) as far as the request for the accent wall to be
the "Suede Green" and the door color, I will keep my motion simple to be consistent and then we can
have a discussion, so the wall to be the "Porcelain" and the trim work in the "Black Forest" and the
door to be the "Glacier Gray".
Terry asked if there was a second to the motion.
Robert Young seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there was any discussion on the motion or questions as to the intent.
• Liberty asked if the Porcelain would be in all areas on bottom and top.
• The answer was that Porcelain would be the same above and below the chair rail.
Terry asked if there is any discussion as to what to do with the plastic chair rail?
Discussion items included:
• The chair rail is too low on the wall with the taller tables and chairs.
• It would be nice if the chair rail was wood.
• Is the Concessionaire paying for this or will the City be paying?
• Jim Cleland said it would be paid for from his budget. He also explained that the blades for the
cutters for the original woodwork are still sitting at Granite Mill so we can still use the original
blades.
• Suggested making the chair rail appropriate to the chairs that are here.
• What about the color question?
Terry asked if there was a motion for the color question and the chair rail.
Steve said he would like to make an amendment the motion to add chair rail if it is in the budget and to
find compatible molding that would look good or if there is a precedent for this already in the building
that we use it and the paint color to be "Black Forest".
Terry asked if there was a second to this motion.
Robert seconded the amendment.
The Committee voted unanimously to approve the amendment.
Terry asked if there is any additional discussion with regard to the original motion.
There was no further discussion.
The committee voted unanimously to accept the Original Motion.
Terry suggested that this information gives direction to Jim to work out with his budgets.
It was suggested that Joan would publish this information and send it to the committee to review and
make revisions before we paint.
The committee reconvened in the Cutler room.
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Agenda Item#3: Washington Square NW Corner—Review of Updated Drawings.
Bruce passed out packets to each committee member and explained that the first 4 pages in the packet
are the NW corner design. Bruce explained that he has tried to go back and capture everything that we
talked about and incorporate all of the items and changes that were discussed the last time the
committee visited the site. Bruce noted the following changes:
• There was concern that the planter was a little too close to the tree, so we shifted it away from
the tree as far away as possible. The little circle that is not labeled next to the planter is a fire
hydrant(shown on the 2nd page sketch) and we are kind of butting up against that and so this is
about as far as we can take the planter without reducing the size of it.
• The plantings stayed the same.
• We've removed one of the benches and moved the monument more toward the corner of the
planter and left one bench.
• We have added a new tree just behind the planter(shown on the sketch as purple leafed tree).
The type of tree would have to be determined with the Urban Forestry Department.
• The one other thing that we did that was not on any of the previous drawings is making the back
of the planter being flush with the grass and then sloping gradually until we have about 6 inches.
Discussion, Questions and Comments:
• There is no drinking fountain. Did we decide to take that out?
• It was decided it would be removed completely.
• Will the flat edge of the planter rising to 6 inches be a skateboard issue?
• Someone could try it, but it would be more difficult with the bench and monument in the way.
• Skateboard bumps could be installed if necessary just like the ones at the Public Safety Building.
• Is this pre-cast or poured in place?
• It is poured in place.
• What were we trying to model it after or match it to?
• Early on we discussed trying to match some of the coping on the fountains, but later on we
talked about simplifying it and making it a simple curb rim planter.
• We did talk, at one time, about using some different concrete with some ad mixed into it similar
to what Public Safety has done. An architectural concrete with a sort of granite look to it.
• Is that something we would still want to do?
• The idea of putting skate board preventers on a 6 inch curb isn't appealing.
• If skateboarding becomes a problem we could attach something later.
• Relative to the concrete curb, the plans show a radius but the sketch-up you've got some joints
in the curbing. Is it segments or will it be a radius?
• It will be a radius.
• Did we want a raised curb to prevent people from walking through there or what was the
reason?
• The main reason was the concern about bikes racing through and we wanted to try to create
some sort of gentle barrier.
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• There is a funny elevation right behind where the fire hydrant is located. There was a hump in
the grass and the bikes would cut across off the sidewalk and jump across to the other sidewalk.
The hump is gone, but the bikes are still riding across the grass.
• If we are really trying to prevent people from walking through here, why don't we raise the curb
and make it a taller planter?
• This design is really good for mowing because they have a level mowing space and they don't
have to do so much weed trimming.
• At one point the whole thing was a raised planter.
• One of the reasons why we leveled the back was specifically for mowing, but the other three
sides could be taller.
• It would be a little more functional if it were a little higher and could also serve as a place to sit,
but should be something other than just concrete. This is a real prominent corner and kind of a
main thoroughfare for people coming to Washington Square.
• We were trying to keep it as benign as possible and not focus on it. It was super huge and when
we actually went out and walked it, it was just a big empty space on a hot day. We wanted to
increase the paved area on Washington Square as little as possible. The guidelines suggest not
increasing the amount of hard surfacing.
• If we raise it are we thinking granite would be the appropriate material?
• Whatever the height of the curb, we would be better served with some type of stone rather can
just an unattractive concrete curb.
• We did try originally to get it to match the base around the fountains which are concrete, which
are decorative with the rounded edges.
• That is what we had in the original proposal, but the thought was that it was too prominent a
feature so we lowered it down just to curb height.
Terry asked if there were further discussion. There was none. Terry reviewed the consensus:
• Overall the design is very acceptable
• The exception right now seems to be the height of the curb and whether the curb adjacent to
the grass is at grass level and the curb that is near the bench whether it is at 6 inch height or a
12" height and the two sides are the slope.
• Whether or not that this is concrete or a stone material. The stone material could be a stone
cap on top of the concrete foundation wall. The question then would be, "what is the
appropriate stone cap material that we would consider?"
• If we do raise it to put a cap on it then we need to entertain some kind of deterrent for skate
boards and decide what that should be.
• The budget is tight on this project and we need to be appropriate and not get carried away.
Terry suggested the committee deal with each one of these items individually.
Terry asked if there was an overall motion to accept the configuration and current design, leaving as a
question the curb and the curb height.
Robert Young moved to accept the motion as stated by Terry.
Terry asked if there was a second to the motion.
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Jerod Johnson seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there was any question on that motion. There were no questions.
Terry asked for a vote to approve the motion.
The Committee unanimously voted to approve the motion.
Terry suggested the next item is the question on the curb height.
Discussion, Questions and Answers:
• Once the vegetation is planted and growing, is it going to be enough of a buffer to deter people
from walking through? How big are these plants right from the onset?
• You can plant any type of plant.
• If you used five gallon material as opposed to 1 gallon materials you would get a different effect.
• It would fill in a lot quicker.
• If that were the case, then putting everything flush down at the same grade as the sidewalk
would not be an issue.
• If you put enough plants in there at least 90%of folks will respect it and the other 10%will walk
through no matter what.
• Are you suggesting getting rid of the curb?
• Put it flush with the sidewalk on the front side and on the back side it would need some sort of
edging.
• Steel edging would work.
• If our argument is that the plants are going to be tight in the space and tall enough then is there
even a need for a curb?
• It would just be the back side and everything else would go away.
Steve Cornell suggested that the curb actually provides some deterrent from people walking through it
and his opinion is that it just needs to be a little bit higher. He suggests making it 12 inches and maybe
put a stone cap on it, but then just eliminate the sides and the back so instead of becoming a container
it becomes a front to that area and the plants would grow up over and it becomes more of a barrier.
Discussion and Comments:
• Will the whole thing be made out of stone?
• It could be a concrete wall with a stone cap or if we find the right concrete with the right
aggregates maybe that is what it is.
• We would have to get a good contractor because he has seen a lot of bad low concrete walls.
There is no guarantee we will get a good contractor.
• It would be the low bid contractor.
• Could we do a value based selection?
• It is possible, but it is a long drawn-out process and the concrete work would most likely end up
being task order contract, which is low bid.
• If we are going to do this we should bring it out 18 inches and make it 18 inches wide so people
to sit on it and not put a cap on it.
• Are you saying 18 inches wide?
• 18 inches high by 18 inches wide because 12 inches is a little hard for some people to sit on.
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• The bench would need to be removed.
• An 18 inch wall would hide all the plants.
• We would need to take another look at the plant design if we do an 18 inch wall.
• If we are eliminating the sides and the back we would gain some space for the front and would
only need the steel edge on the back.
• The steel edging affects the top roots that are closest to the surface and these are what kill the
trees.
• If we made it seating along that area and we look at eliminating the bench, would we look at
relocating the monument too?
• This leaves the space wide open and then we have the skateboard issue again.
• We could consider lowering the wall and curving it on the top.
• We could just get rid of the curb altogether all around it and let the concrete edge be and just
beef up the plants/shrubs along with edges.
• We could take a look at it down the road and determine if people and actually walking through
and determine what is needed.
• No curbing at all would reflect what already exists out along the east sidewalk where the
sidewalk makes up the edge of the planting areas.
Terry asked if there were any other items for discussion. There were none.
Terry asked if anyone is willing to make a motion.
Mark Vlasic motioned to eliminate the curb in the design altogether.
Terry asked if there was a second to the motion.
Robert Young seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there was any discussion on the motion. There was none.
Terry called for a vote.
Four Committee Members voted to approve the Motion and One Committee member voted to oppose.
The motion passed.
Terry instructed Bruce to eliminate the curb from the design and request for bigger plants.
The Committee agreed that Bruce did not need to come back with a new drawing. The Committee
thanked Bruce for his hard work on this project.
Terry asked if Bruce wanted to give an update relative to the North East Corner.
Bruce told the Committee he had some options relative to the past discussions in which we were
heading towards getting rid of doing any new concrete and relocating the monument to a place where it
is more noticeable and not just another box. He designed three options where he looked at moving the
monument away from trees as much as possible and use just small pads of concrete.
The first option is circular. The second is a modified design. The third option is to just take it straight
across, and as Bruce explained is probably be the easiest as fair as maintenance and sprinklers are
concerned. Bruce said a bench could easily be added if wanted.
Discussion, Questions and Answers:
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• The third option is good and doesn't look as forced as the other two options look.
• What direction the statue facing?
• The statue faces east. You would face the plaque towards the statue so they are looking at the
statue while reading the plaque.
• Wouldn't it make more sense on option three to flip-flop the bench and the statue so the statue
is more "front and center" so the statue is more towards the plaza and the bench is more off to
the side?
• Bruce said he tried to move that box as far away from the other boxes as possible so it stands
out and is not just another box.
Robert Young made a motion to accept option three as drawn.
Terry asked if there was a second to this motion.
Jerod Johnson seconded the motion.
Terry asked if there was any question or discussion on the motion.
There was none.
The Committee voted unanimously to approve the motion.
Agenda is Item#4: Open Meetings Training. Terry suggested that since Jaysen is absent Joan should
add this item to next month's agenda.
It was suggested that since there were only a couple of the Committee Member's that missed the initial
training, this item should be the last item on next month's agenda.
Mark Vlasic asked to go back to the first agenda item regarding the North West Corner. He asked if
another bench could be purchased and added to the corner with the money saved by not doing the
concrete.
Bruce said another bench could be added and asked if the monument should be moved back to the
middle.
Mark said he just thought another bench in between the fire hydrant and the existing bench would be
good. Mark also asked Bruce if he will be sure to harden the concrete underneath the bench.
Terry asked Mark if he wanted to make a motion.
Mark motioned for the northwest west corner plaza to include an additional bench to be located
between the fire hydrant and the existing proposed bench.
Terry asked if there were any questions about the motion. There were none.
The committee voted unanimously to approve the motion.
Agenda Item#5: General Committee Business.
Joan Swain explained that while reviewing the information sent to her by the Historic Landmarks
Committee relative to finding any sort of master plan for Washington Square, she reviewed the Salt Lake
City Ordinance Chapter 2.39 "Building Conservancy and Use Committee as well as the Rules of
Procedure for the Conservancy and Use Committee and discovered the following information that she
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was unaware of and wanted to see what the Committee's recommendations were to get things back on
track:
• The Committee should hold Elections of Officers in July or August at a regular meeting. This was
not done this past August and the only record in the minutes showed the last time elections
were held it was in 2012.
• The Committee should hold an Annual Meeting in November for the purpose of approving the
annual report, reviewing committee policies and procedures, formulating goals, recommending
items for preventative maintenance and capital improvement budgets and other business the
Committee deems appropriate.
Joan also presented an updated list of the Committee Members and noted that the following:
• SLC Arts Council Representative—John McCarthy is acting until a new member is approved.
• Utah Historical Society-This position is vacant.
Terry explained that he thought we had that on the agenda to do in October and then forgot about it.
Jim noted that he did not think there was a quorum in October's meeting.
Joan explained that she had read through past minutes and the only election information she found was
from November 2012. She also explained that the first meeting that she attended was June, 2013 and in
that meeting they were approving the minutes from November, 2012 because there had not been a
quorum at meetings up to that time and it was the November minutes that discussed the election of
officers.
Terry suggested that the election of Officers needed to be put on the February agenda and noted that
the Bylaws related to Chairman and Vice Chairman state that a Chairman can only serve two terms and
his term would be up with the next election. Joan was asked to add the election of Officers to next
month's agenda.
Terry suggested that we reach out to the Utah Historical Society to ask them for a representative and we
should also do the same for the SLC Arts Council as well and ask them if they will accept John McCarthy
as their representative or provide us another representative.
Jim Cleland said that he would write some letters to these two groups before the next meeting.
Terry asked if there were any questions regarding the elections or the committee member
representatives.
Robert Young asked if the requirement is fora Licensed Architect was the position he filled, explaining
that he is not licensed and does not want anyone to be misled into thinking he was claiming to be
licensed.
Joan reported that the Mayor's office approved his application and listed him as the Architectural
representative.
Jim commented that he did not think it was a requirement, but that the representative just comes from
the architectural community.
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Discussion relative to annual meeting:
• Mark said that to his knowledge they had not ever held an annual meeting, but that doesn't
mean we shouldn't. He also suggested that the bylaws could be changed as well.
• Terry suggested that the agenda for the annual meeting in November would have all the items
suggested in the Rules of Procedure and be more of a housekeeping meeting.
• Terry suggested amending the Rules to state that an annual meeting will be held in September.
• Jim explained that this is going to be a critical time in the history of the building with the stone
renovation project and the seismic upgrades and we will have contractors reporting of progress
and will be both a busy and exciting time for the Committee.
• The question was asked if the elections were a required to be part of the annual meeting.
• The Rules of Procedure say the Election of Officers is held in August.
• Terry said that his recollection was that the elections held in the past two years were in
September.
• Mark asked if we would try to tag those on to the July date when everybody's terms are up.
• Terry suggested that he thinks this is why it was changed to August so that all the new people
are to in to vote.
• Mark asked if we would back date it to August then or just 18 months forward.
• Terry suggested that this would be part of a motion. He suggested changing the term to 18
months and make the elections in September, because sometimes August is skipped because of
all the other commitments.
Terry asked if we hit all of the agenda items and items of concern.
Joan replied that we did.
Terry asked if there was a motion to adjourn.
Robert Young motioned to adjourn
Steve Cornell seconded the motion.
The Committee unanimously motion to adjourn.
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