01/10/2022 - Minutes (3) SALT LAKE CITY JOINT TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD
&BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING
Minutes of the January io, 2022 Meeting
TAB Members Present for this meeting were Courtney Reeser, Daniel Mendoza, Dave
Alderman, David Parrott, Ellen Reddick, Greg Sanchez, Jenn Diederich, Jon Larsen,
Kerry Doane, Myron Willson, and Suzanne Stensaas.
TAB Members Absent for this meeting were Benjamin LaRiviere, Jim Espeland, Paul
Schulte, and Reid Ewing.
BAC Members Present for this meeting were Daniel Houpt, David Parrott, Josalyn
Bates, Joshua Poppel, Martin Cuma, Rachel Manko, and Sam Janse.
BAC Members Absent for this meeting were Gabriela Knudson, Jacquelyn Thiel, and
Patrick Casey.
Also present were Amy Lyons, Tyler Schmidt, Lynn Jacobs, Dave Iltis, Madison
Blodgett, Becka Roolf, Kyle Irvin,Ashley Lichtle, Lara Handwerker, Jen Colby, and
George Chapman.
The meeting was held electronically and was called to order at 4:35 p.m.by Courtney
Reeser.
Welcome,Anchor Statement, Member Introductions, New Year's
Transportation Resolutions
TAB/BAC Members&Lara Handwerker
Courtney welcomed everyone and read the anchor statement. All TAB and BAC
members introduced themselves and talked about their transportation related New
Year's resolutions.
Public Comment — Dave Iltis commented on the 200 South rebuild project which he
said really needs full protected bike lanes. He said Salt Lake City's plan is to make this a
transit first street and it needs to be a people first street with pedestrians and bicyclists
first and then transit. It's the only street that goes from east to west in the downtown
area. None of the other streets connect safely through downtown,you must go over
bridges, overpasses, etc. SLC's plan, the last time he looked at it, was a weaving disaster
with bike lanes weaving in between bus stops, and parked cars and it would be a simple
change to just make it a parking protected bike lane throughout. He hopes TAB and
BAC will push Transportation into a better plan for 200 South because it's something
the former BAC fought for, to finally get bike lanes connecting from about 1000 West to
the University. Now there is the possibility of that, it'll still be there regardless but
there's a chance for improvement, so he asks that it please be improved. Secondly, he's
not aware of the full extent of the discussion on interdepartmental coordination but
feels the relationship between Streets, Engineering, and Transportation seems
dysfunctional. He said the city ends up with cases like the green bike lanes that took ii
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years to restripe and now 600 East bike lanes that are going on a couple of years of
being completely worn off and not being restriped. They keep getting put off which
shows that Streets is not prioritizing bike lanes even if Transportation is. Engineering is
also sometimes in conflict with Transportation and vice versa. It seems no one has to
listen to anyone else given the way the hierarchy in the city goes. Some sort of
combination or a Transportation person that oversees all three would be helpful for the
future. Suzanne asked Dave if he sees the problem on 200 South as a problem with
UDOT or the City. Dave said it's absolutely a Salt Lake City problem, 200 South is a city
road and is i00% a SLC project. Suzanne asked if he sees it as a problem between SLC
and UTA that wants it as a route up to the U of U. Dave said he doesn't know what
UTA's roll is but thinks you can have both. He said you can have a transit corridor with
a bus lane, and you can have parking protected bike lanes where the lanes are at the
curb, and you have floating bus stops like there are in many other cities. Jen Colby
thanked TAB and BAC for their service. She said she served as the Sustainability person
for the U of U for several years and has been quite active in transportation, livable cities,
air quality, and all green things. She said she has been watching YouTube videos on
livable cities and massive changes that have been made. She knew what Copenhagen
was doing but didn't know what the Netherlands was doing. She would highly
recommend that everyone watch the videos on the Not Just Bikes channel. She is
heartbroken after 20 years of living in SLC and activism on this, as someone who does
everything in her power to walk, bike, and take transit and to just realize how the city is
now supporting that but most people don't bother because it's far too easy to drive. The
network is not complete, there needs to be a decent network of everything, for the levels
of service for all people and not just cars. SLC has huge,wide streets and it could have
been different. Once the Netherlands got their plans in place, they came up with a very
strong, safe streets program and worked backwards from that. Now 25 years later, 1/2 of
all the bike lanes plus pedestrian safety are completely integrated including car plans
making it more convenient to bike and walk than drive. She said they point out that
very few of us are car people,bike people, walk people, or scooter people. We just want
to get where we need to go as safely and adequately as possible. She thinks about the
fact that there isn't enough time in her life until SLC is really a quality city for all of this
and is frustrated as an advocate, and someone who lives here and really wishes to see
better conditions for the future generations. She said the reality right now is that we're
facing dire consequences on every level yet we're not acting as though that is the case.
She wishes all the internal combustion vehicles were replaced with electric vehicles and
encouraged everyone, as they enter 2022, to work hard and change their way of thinking
because if it's stuck in car centric, we can't get people out of their cars. George Chapman
said Dave is right about 200 South. The city is going to be spending $400k on a transit
station which doesn't make sense on 200 South, and he thinks they're spending $67
million on an enhanced bus when all that money could be used for electric busses within
SLC which makes more sense to him. He likes parking protected bike lanes but doesn't
like separated bike lanes because the city refuses to sweep them except every seven
weeks. If separated bike lanes aren't going to be maintained, they shouldn't be building
them. George doesn't think the city understands how to do bicycle infrastructure. They
put in a raised bicycle lane and then they put in rocks that were at a slant which rolled
into the bike lane. He thinks 200 South is a disaster and does not agree with the design.
Martin asked the city to become more serious about snowplowing bike lanes. It hasn't
been much of a problem for the last two winters but this winter it is a problem. His
commute on 1500 East was blocked for a week and a half because the snowplows are
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afraid to plow the bike lanes all the way to the parked cars. He said they are forced to
put their three-year-old in a bike trailer and take the car lane for their commute to
school every day. He would like to see some movement in that direction and remembers
a pilot program a few years ago for moving the cars away for the day so the bike lanes
could be plowed. That didn't materialize because it didn't snow that winter but it would
be nice if the City could move in that direction again and become more serious about
forcing the motorists to yield a little bit of their rights so the bike lanes can be cleaned
up and used throughout the year.
Local Link Close-Out Discussion &Highland Drive Updates
Lynn Jacobs, SLC Transportation
Lynn gave an update on the Local Link Study and said there are two components to this
study. One that was completed almost a year ago was a circulation study in the Sugar
House area to better connect Millcreek, Sugar House, and South Salt Lake. As a result
of that study, there were several projects recommended. The city has already been able
to move forward on implementation of some of those, including the Parley's Trail
alignment through the Sugar House business district. SLC has involved staff from the
other cities and took a deep look into how to improve biking and walking facilities
between the cities. The second component of the Local Links Study is a Transit
Alternatives Analysis to better evaluate how to connect those cities. The preferred
alternative from that study is to use an enhanced bus route on Highland Drive.
Transportation plans on recommending the enhanced bus service and then someday
converting that line to a streetcar when the ridership is high enough to justify the
expense. They are also recommending that the enhanced bus service route be extended
further north and south all the way along the proposed future streetcar alignment. This
includes taking it down 200 South to the Frontrunner station and south to the canyons,
gravel pit parking lot area. Now that the alternatives analysis has wrapped up, they are
going to go into a public review and then take this recommendation to the City Council
for adoption. Lynn said that on Highland Drive, they have come up with a concept
which is essentially rebuilding the road from I-8o to r700 South and for the bulk of it,
they will be adding a new multi-use path on the west side of the street. This will become
a continuation/connection to the Parley's Trail that the Local Links study identified was
needed. The idea of the multi-use path is that it connects these trails, but more
importantly, it connects users of those trails with the businesses in Sugar House. There
will also be the addition of a lot of bike parking and other features to make it very
friendly for people to walk, ride their bike, and get around in the corridor. This project
is advancing to final design and is currently what they are planning on building when it
goes to construction. Lynn said that while the general concept is pretty set, they will be
fine tuning this and looking at transitions, signage, and what can be done within the
footprint they have to make this work for all users. After some discussion by the
members, Courtney thanked everyone and said they need to remember they are looking
at transportation for everyone, not just a specific group and it needs to be safe for
everyone that's using it.
Goals and Framing for TAB &BAC
Lara Handwerker, SLC Transportation
Lara did a group visioning exercise to set the framework for how the members can
approach items that are brought to them throughout the year and how they can use their
influence as TAB/BAC members. She began by asking them to share three words in the
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chat to describe their personal goals and/or vision for SLC's transportation system.
Lara then showed a series of slides with pictures of different types of transportation
system users. Everyone shared 3 words in the chat showing what needs each user might
need or require when traveling. She put their answers into a word cloud and felt they
could see, through this exercise, the balancing of different needs of people using the
transportation system. Lara said this is a good thing to look back on next time they are
looking at a city project to think about what Transportation thinks about and help
identify themes like safety and other important parts of projects.
Interdepartmental Coordination Brainstorm
SLC Transportation&Committee Members
Lara took the opportunity while everyone was together to get them thinking about issues
they have noticed from a resident perspective. She said sometimes it's even difficult for
employees to know who is responsible for what project and she would like to talk about
how the different Divisions and Departments work together, coordinate, and overcome
the apparent barriers or differences in goals. Her current list identifies Public Utilities,
Engineering, Parks and Public Lands, Streets, Compliance, Golf, Urban Forestry, and
Planning as different Departments/Divisions within the city where Transportation's
work really relates and sometimes, they work closely together. Courtney said a list that
Suzanne had previously submitted was incredible and one of the things that came out of
the many projects on the west side is that there isn't a lot of communication amongst
Transportation and other Departments. Transportation is what brings people out of
their house and into society, that's how they get from point A to point B. If
Transportation is doing a neighborhood byway, are they coordinating with Streets and
Engineering on how it gets implemented or does Public Utilities ask if something is
being done in an area so they can piggyback onto a project? Kerry thinks the idea of a
hierarchy of priorities like pedestrians, then bikes, etc., should be developed and shared
with the city and when there is construction, the contractors should also be held to it.
Sometimes the sidewalks are closed, and cars can more easily move around obstacles
then pedestrians. If there is a priority or a policy for all Departments to follow, then
maybe the pedestrians get some of the street space. Lara said that as the Transportation
Master Plan is being updated, they are trying to have these types of conversations from a
policy perspective. The TMP isn't a list of projects but rather policy foundations so they
can have these priorities and approaches clearly outlined and followed in the future.
Suzanne said she's sick of master plans because they never get implemented. Lara said
the TMP hasn't been updated for years and it's going to be policy oriented. She said it's
important because it forms the base of all these questions and conversations regarding
what type of infrastructure should be put on streets for pedestrians, bicyclists, and
others. The first survey for the TMP just wrapped up and Joe Taylor will be reaching
out to the group again. Suzanne said that's good, and it needs to start with a priority of
users with cars being last. They all need to be in the same plan and intertwined so they
happen together which would help solve the problem of interagency disconnect. She
also suggested that maybe the organization plan needs to be changed as far as who
reports to who because if the city can't get everything done efficiently, they're wasting
money. Courtney said that instead of a master plan, there should be a living,breathing,
changeable program that can work together as priorities change or other things happen.
Having an overlay of planning might be a better way of looking at a master plan idea.
She said there have been a lot of studies that haven't been implemented and it's
frustrating that their time and resources are going into that, and nothing happens. She
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thanked everyone for their ideas, and it was determined that there may be a joint
meeting again this year to continue this discussion.
Meeting Chat
from myron willson to everyone: 5:04 PM
what additional factors are associated with enhanced transit?how will it prioritize bus
over cars?
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:04 PM
Why not a continuation of the streetcar?
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:05 PM
And what about bike lanes on Highland?
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:09 PM
I concur with Dave on bike lanes on Highland. It is critical. Downtown Sugar House is
utterly hostile to bicycling.
from myron willson to everyone: 5:09 PM
buses should be prioritized
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:10 PM
Downtown Sugar House is a perfect example of car dependent design,with massive
density added without doing simultaneous multimodal redesign. So it becomes chicken
and egg re getting people out of cars.
from myron willson to everyone: 5:11 PM
if cars are faster, ppl won't get on transit- "enhanced bus" seems to be a marketing
gimmick?
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:13 PM
What is the rationale that SLC is taking with multi-use paths rather than bike only
paths?
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:14 PM
Highland is narrow-partly due to bulbouts. Not clear to me how a person on a bike
safely gets from this path to SugarHouse Coffee etc.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:14 PM
Highland is narrow N of 2100 S I mean
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:15 PM
How will traffic be calmed throughout the corridor?
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:18 PM
More bicycle gutters! Better than nothing but its not a proper bicycle facility. Confidence
should not be a qualification for getting on a bike.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:19 PM
Why do Dutch omas (grandmas) bicycle?Their confidence comes from proper design.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:20 PM
Please add continuous raised crosswalks they are brilliant
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:20 PM
See the Not Just Bikes YouTube on this topic
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:21 PM
People on bikes moving into traffic lanes enfuriate car drivers and just create more
bikelash.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:22 PM
There should not be tradeoffs between people on bikes and peds
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:22 PM
Those bulbouts are not safe for bikes. Suzanne is right.
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from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:22 PM
Continuous sidewalks as speed humps solve the problem
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:23 PM
Businesses need to recognize we peds and cyclists and transit riders also shop
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:23 PM
Stats are on our side
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:23 PM
Paid parking please no free on street parking
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:24 PM
People in wheelchairs regularly use side paths. Its the cars that are the threat to ADA
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:24 PM
Continuous sidewalks! Broken record.
from Jacobs, Lynn to everyone: 5:28 PM
Link to Local Link Circulation Study:
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/6892ad264fe44389bba59b3475f b6e6fhttps://sto
rymaps.arcgis.com/stories/6892ad264fe44389bba59b3475fb6e6f
from Jacobs, Lynn to everyone: 5:28 PM
Link to Highland Drive: https://avenueconsultants.com/video/virtual/HighlandDr/a/
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:29 PM
Priority in planning needs to be 1. People on foot first. 2. People on bikes, scooters,
skateboards 3. Transit. 4. Delivery 5. Last and least- cars.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:3o PM
The psychological changes come from good design not the other way around. People are
not "drivers" "cyclists" "peds" "scooterpeople" exclusively! Most people are flexible but
need networked systems and maintenance. Car centric design crushes choice and thus
true freedom.
from Jacobs, Lynn to everyone: 5:3o PM
I actually have to leave to prepare for another meeting - if you would like to have offline
discussions about Local Link, Highland Drive or other projects in the Sugar House area
-please reach out to me: lynn.jacobs@slcgov.com. I apologize that I won't be able to
answer all of these great questions in the chat but happy to have offline conversations as
needed.
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:31 PM
efficient, responsive coordinate
from myron willson to everyone: 5:31 PM
safe, options and safe
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5:31 PM
Less car centric.
from Doane, Kerry Mgr Long Range Strategic Plann to everyone: 5:32 PM
choice, sustainable, inclusive
from Danny Houpt to everyone: 5:32 PM
safe, reliable, future-proof
from Dave Alderman to everyone: 5:32 PM
convenient, flexible, equitable
from josalyn to everyone: 5:32 PM
If we emulate what other cities do its a bit easier to figure out how we can include
everyone. I really agree with including everyone but there re prioroties. How did
netherlands or places like it do it?
from Ellen Reddick to everyone: 5:32 PM
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Agree with Dave A
from Joshua Poppel to everyone: 5:32 PM
less car centric...
from Tyler Schmidt to everyone: 5:32 PM
I have to leave for another meeting. It was nice meeting you all.
from David Parrott to everyone: 5:32 PM
timely, safe, equitable
from Sam JANSE to everyone: 5:32 PM
Enjoyable, equitable, dynamic
from josalyn to everyone: 5:32 PM
sustainable, safe, active
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:32 PM
calming, equitable, changable
from Greg Sanchez to everyone: 5:33 PM
Connected, Equitable, Community
from Ellen Reddick to everyone: 5:33 PM
Bye TYler-good to see you in person.
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:33 PM
by changable, I mean adaptable
from myron willson to everyone: 5:34 PM
less sustainable?
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:36 PM
curb cuts, cross walks, signals
from Doane, Kerry Mgr Long Range Strategic Plann to everyone: 5:36 PM
safe, enjoyable, slow
from David Parrott to everyone: 5:36 PM
safety, accessability, space
from myron willson to everyone: 5:37 PM
safe, enjoyable variety
from Sam JANSE to everyone: 5:37 PM
Separation from traffic, quiet, signals
from Dave Alderman to everyone: 5:37 PM
safe, pedestrian focused, accessible
from Greg Sanchez to everyone: 5:37 PM
safety,visibility, buffered
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5:38 PM
good clean sidewalk, safe street crossing
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:38 PM
safe, even-surfaced, pleasant
from myron willson to everyone: 5:38 PM
that applies to all neighborhoods ellen!
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:39 PM
shelter, on time, frequent
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5:39 PM
easy, reliable, safe
from Doane, Kerry Mgr Long Range Strategic Plann to everyone: 5:39 PM
space, straight, sheltered
from Danny Houpt to everyone: 5:39 PM
reliable, consistent, frequent
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from Sam JANSE to everyone: 5:39 PM
Shelter, reliable, frequent
from David Parrott to everyone: 5:39 PM
accessibility, safety, relelability
from Dave Alderman to everyone: 5:39 PM
timely, convenient, reliable
from myron willson to everyone: 5:39 PM
prioritized, safely, timely
from josalyn to everyone: 5:39 PM
safe, understandable, easy
from Greg Sanchez to everyone: 5:39 PM
Sheltered,Access,Well-lit
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:39 PM
mobility, reliable, convenient
from Doane, Kerry Mgr Long Range Strategic Plann to everyone: 5:42 PM
slow, space, safe
from Dave Alderman to everyone: 5:42 PM
safety, safety, safety
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:42 PM
safe, potholes, rocks
from josalyn to everyone: 5:43 PM
encouraging, fun, access
from Danny Houpt to everyone: 5:43 PM
Safe, clean,visible
from Sam JANSE to everyone: 5:43 PM
Safe, maintained, accessible
from David Parrott to everyone: 5:43 PM
safe, inclusive, protected
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:43 PM
safety, sustainable,visible
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5:43 PM
equality, safety
from Greg Sanchez to everyone: 5:44 PM
ramps,visibility, space
from Doane, Kerry Mgr Long Range Strategic Plann to everyone: 5:44 PM
smooth, enjoyable, seating
from David Parrott to everyone: 5:44 PM
smooth, clear, protected
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:44 PM
maintenance, landscaping,benches
from Courtney Reeser to everyone: 5:44 PM
Viable!, safety, even-surfaces
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5:45 PM
leveled, clean, separated
from josalyn to everyone: 5:45 PM
helpful, clean, interseting
from Sam JANSE to everyone: 5:45 PM
Accessibility, maintained, level
from Danny Houpt to everyone: 5:45 PM
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Leveled, clean, cared for
from myron willson to everyone: 5:45 PM
arterials as canyons.
from josalyn to everyone: 5:45 PM
interesting
from myron willson to everyone: 5:45 PM
noise, safety
from josalyn to everyone: 5:46 PM
artistic
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:47 PM
I forgot to put shade, shade, trees, trees
from josalyn to everyone: 5:49 PM
less expensive than driving!
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:49 PM
very useful exercise
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:5o PM
Please all if you are unfamiliar with the Netherlands transportation planning with safety
first please do some homework. The assumption is that people make mistakes and
design must minimize consequences.Vulnerable users first. It took a while to build out
but outcomes are amazing- at least from afar.
from Jen Colby to everyone: 5:52 PM
Post COVID (if that ever happens) maybe a field trip to Amsterdam and environs is in
order :)
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 5 53 PM
We haven't seen Suzanne's list.
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:55 PM
I just sent it to Lara.You can make and submit your own list of where you see that
departments are not communicating, efficient, timed, supported, scheduled, etc.
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:55 PM
There needs to be a single SLC Transportation Dept. that encompasses planning,
maintenance, and engineering. Not 3 different departments with 3 different goals.
from suzanne stensaas to everyone: 5:57 PM
trees and sidewalks, signals and cross walks, lighting,bikes lanes all have to be done at
the same time
from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:59 PM
1996.
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 6:02 PM
LIfe on State is another study that has gone nowhere.
from Danny Houpt to everyone: 6:02 PM
I have to drop, apologies
from Dave Alderman to everyone: 6:03 PM
I've got to go to another meeting. Thanks for all the discussion.
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 6:03 PM
You need to ask why were these plans not implemented?
from josalyn to everyone: 6:03 PM
how about making a master plan on how to make incentives and benefits to those who
are less car centric
from Handwerker, Lara to everyone: 6:03 PM
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Greg- I'm sorry that we ran out of time for your comment.You or anyone else, please
feel free to email me after the meeting with any additional thoughts.
lara.handwerker@slcgov.com
from Greg Sanchez to everyone: 6:04 PM
thanks! will do!
from josalyn to everyone: 6:04 PM
good job everyone!
from Dave Iltis to everyone: 6:04 PM
Thank you!
Motion: Courtney Reeser motioned to adjourn the meeting; Kerry Doane seconded the
motion. The motion passed unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 6:05 p.m.
Approved by the Transportation Advisory Board 02-07-22
Approved by the Bicycle Advisory Committee 03-21-22
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