9/11/2023 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES
SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE
HYBRID MEETING HELD, SEPTEMBER 11, 2023
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT
Catherine Tucker, Committee Chair Jim Cleland, SLC Facilities
Rob Pett, Committee Member Sean Fyfe, SLC Engineering
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Kathy Davis, Committee Member o ntp Ro out committee Laura Marshall, SLC Facilities
Barabara Murphy, Committee Member Maya Ellis, SLC Public Services
Jennifer Hale, Committee Member - aysen Oldroyd, SLC Attorney's Office
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COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT October 9, 2023
John Kemp, Committee Vice Chair
Steve Cornell, Committee Member
Anne Oliver, Committee Member
Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by taking a role
call as follows: Rob Pett, Committee Member; Catherine Tucker, Committee Chair; Laura Marshall, Salt Lake City Facilities;
Maya Ellis, Salt Lake City Public Services; Kathy Davis, Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd, Salt Lake City Attorney's
Office;Jennifer Hale, Committee Member; Barbara Murphy, Committee Member,Jim Cleland, Salt Lake City Facilities;
and Sean Fyfe, Salt Lake City Engineering.
Agenda Item 1: Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes
Catherine gave everyone a moment to review the last meeting minutes. Then asked if anyone had any comments or if
someone wanted to motion to approve the minutes.
Rob Pett motioned to approve the minutes.
Kathy Davis Seconded the motion.
The Committee voted unanimously to approve the minutes.
Agenda item 2: Proposal for new security gates for room 315 and 326
Maya said,just a little bit of background, there is an ongoing effort to enhance the safety and security of the City and our
newly appointed security director identified the need to add two gates. One will be in the Council Chambers and the
other will be in the Council Workroom.This will serve as an extra security measure. I have the gates, the bulk of the
drawings are very similar,they will go directly to the right of each dais, secured as shown.The main purpose will be to
conceal the Council Members while they make their way to a safe location.Jeff Brown, our in-house carpenter from
Facilities, will be responsible for creating and installing the gates.The wood and stain will match the existing furniture.
Rob asked,the side panels and posts are already preexisting, is that correct?
Maya said I believe the post are existing, but he will have to manufacture a panel for the Council Chamber.
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Rob asked, do you have a plan for this that shows where everything will be placed?
Maya said it's placed to the right; this is the only drawing I have.
Rob said when you are looking at the dais it is on the right-hand side.
Maya said yes,the right-hand side.
Jim said it's very similar to what we did in the Mayor's office reception area.
Rob said, oh the Mayor's main entry.
Jim said,yes but this will be on the dais instead.
Rob asked so in the Chamber again, it is on the right-hand side.
Rob then asked for the drawing to be pulled up so everyone could look at the drawings.
Jim asked Maya to project the drawings.
Maya said yes let me sign into Zoom and share the drawings.
Catherine asked if the drawings were shared with the group.
Jim confirmed they were included in the email invite with the agenda.
Sean shared a photo of the drawings of the Council Chambers on his screen.
Jim said it'll be the typical raised panels, so it'll match the decor of the rooms. It'll be secured with a steel plate and
secured to the baluster on the side.
Rob asked, but in addition to the gate, there are two filled in panels. One is 14 inches, the other is 6 inches. Is that
adjacent to the wall on the right-hand side? Is that the wall.
Catherine said yes. On the other drawings it's saying it'll be attached to an existing desk leg.
Sean said yeah that is for the workroom, I believe.
Jim said the desk is a built-in desk cabinet unit.
Rob asked and all of this will be controlled electronically.
Maya said no there will not be electronic control.
Rob asked, so anyone can swing them open?
Maya said yes.
Catherine said and they're only 36 inches tall. The security they represent is psychological, nothing more.
Robb asked, who made these drawings?
Maya stated they were made by Jeff Brown.
Rob asked, and he is the cabinet maker.
Maya said yes, he is our facilities carpenter.
Rob said, so they are being made in-house.
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Catherine asked, what is Jeff Brown's experience creating other similar woodwork to match the historical woodwork? He
has done a lot of this, and we can simply say we know his work will be beautiful. Or will we want to see a mockup and
samples.
Maya said I think Jim can speak best of his work, but he has done a lot of work around the building. I believe he has built
some of the posts that house some of the AED panels.
Jim said currently he has been installing the security bullet proof glass in all the doors and all of the security latches that
you see. He's also working on the dais right now to install additional security bullet proof plating in the dais.And working
on the bullnoses on the dais.
Catherine said I think my question would be more regarding do we already have a sample of work he's done similarly to
what we're proposing here in terms of quarter sawn oak.
Jim said yes if you'd like to look out in the hall right in front of the doors,there is a sample of his work on those push
button stands,the pedestals that the security speakers are on.
Rob said, where are those located?
Jim said those are in the Main hallways on levels 4 and 3.
Sean said Jim, who built the gates in the Mayor's reception area. Who did those?
Jim said that was done by our previous carpenters Neil Jackman and Ray Wickins.
Sean said, and those were also in-house.
Jim said,yes also in-house.
Rob said, okay, I'm fine with it happening in house as long as he matches the quality.
Sean said, I was just curious if he had hired that out.
Jim said, I have full confidence in Jeff Brown and his ability to do this at the standard where we're looking to do this.
We've tried to get three contractors involved in this project and they're all so busy that they don't have time to do
something like this, so this is the only option. The three contractors we would allow to work in here was Huetter
Cabinet, Granite Mills and I can't remember, there was one other one. That has a similar level of workmanship to what
we expect in this building.
Catherine said, well Rob, I think this is something where you're the one on this committee representing us best.
Robb said, what do we need to do here. I think we need the opportunity to look at the conditions. In conjunction of
these drawings. And see if there is anything we think might have been missed or needed. I don't speak for everyone. But
the idea of adding this, along as it's not front and center that is basically perpendicular to the dais is what I am hearing.
But until I see it, I am not quite sure.The concept of it doesn't bother me.
Catherine said I think we may want to consider. I don't know if Karilyn Anderson is on.That we may want to consider the
issues with ADA or if we've impinged on anything like that.
Jim said there is a full 36-inch opening that you can clear there. So even if we had a Council Member who has an ADA
need,that would fit the clearance necessary at 36 inches.
Catherine said sure but maybe not the space on the strike side needed to be able to operate it.
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Sean said I'm not sure we're looking at a strike here, but I think we could argue about reasonable accommodation if
necessary.That would be pretty easy to do. I haven't looked at the requirements in a while, but 36 inches does seem
right.
Rob said the width is fine. I am assuming they're both the same width.
Sean said,yes, I assume they're both the same.
Rob said I think we would like an opportunity to look at each condition rather than relying totally on these sketches.
Sean said we should talk about logistics of that. Because the formal Council Chambers are currently closed off for
construction. You may want to just look at the Council Workroom, then we can schedule a view of the formal Chambers
after they've reopened in mid-October.
Rob said,well certainly we would want this completed before it's reoccupied, I assume.
Maya said,Jeff is doing a lot of work on the dais right now, so these are planned to be installed after that. So, after mid-
October.
Rob said, okay, so we could have an opportunity say at the next meeting to do some final approval then.
Maya said, I can go ahead and take some pictures for everyone that joins online, and we can review them that way.
Rob said, do that because these drawings just don't tell us enough.
Sean said I'll get to the schedule regarding this shortly, but what is the next meeting date?
Laura said October 9.
Sean said that's just a little too early to let you in, Phase 1 is scheduled to be complete on October 12. We may be able to
work out some arrangements with our contractor to stay a little later and be available to view the room at the next
meeting. If there is a need to get into the construction area, the contractor needs to know and support us while we are
viewing the area. But you'd have to wear PPE because it is an active construction area. If that would be okay with
everybody. It might be close to completion, but it is still an active construction area.
Catherine stated,just to summarize for those who may not be able to hear. Sean, your connection is a little hard to
understand. If everyone can plan for our next meeting, on October 9. If you want to be able to be in person to review this
area that we are talking about adding these gates to. Bring protective equipment. And that basically means closed-toed
shoes and I assume the contractor can provide us with anything else we might need.
Rob said, I think they may mostly worry about hard hats and safety vests.
Sean said,yes, I assume that's correct.
Catherine, I believe we should have those 2 items. As long as we don't show up with flip flop shoes. We probably won't
have an issue.
Sean said, I wanted to say too if you wanted to visit the Council Workroom today you could. There is no construction in
that area today.
Catherine said,for those who are here in person we may go visit the Council Workroom today.
Rob asked, so where does that leave us?
Catherine said do you have a motion on how you want to leave this?
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Rob said I don't think we'll need one, as we agreed to meet next time, and are preparing to go review the area. Does that
work.
Catherine said,yes and Maya if you're able to attend again next time or bring someone who can speak to these drawings
or have more elaborate drawings or photographs. Anything we can do to get more information.Then we'll work on this
again next time.
Rob asked,Jim or Sean can you ask the carpenter if he can be available next time?
Jim said yes, we can certainly do that.
Rob said it would be nice to meet him.
Catherine stated, in as much as we are sure his work is very beautiful and will fit within the building. Having an example
of something he has already done. Or the same crew has already done here in the building might be helpful. And again,
focusing on the issue of looking at quarter sawn oak.And what kind of reveals, especially having something actually
connected to existing items would be helpful to see.
Jim stated, we replaced our carpenter about 6 months ago, so he hasn't had the time in service here to build a big
portfolio, so we would need to see the things I already mentioned.
Catherine said, okay.
Rob said, I am sure he understands the significance of the building and the work to inspire.
Jim said, he does very well.
Catherine said, if there is no further discussion. We will move on to the next agenda item, Sean Fyfe and Karilyn
Anderson discussing and giving us an update on earthquake remediation.
Rob said, I don't believe Karilyn is on.
Catherine said, sounds like Karilyn is not here.
Sean said,yeah, it's just me today.
Agenda Item 3: Earthquake Remediation Update
Sean said, last time I mentioned the contractor was mobilizing.They have since mobilized and begun Phase One which is
the northwest corner of the Third Floor so it's in the City Council office area. That does include the formal Chambers like I
mentioned.That phase is scheduled to be complete October 10 just shortly after our next meeting. Currently they're
prepping for paint in that area.They're performed a number of plaster repairs and I'm happy to say the entire project is
currently on schedule. Things are progressing well. I don't want to jinx it, but things are going really well, and Paulsen is
doing really well. Phase One should be finished in about a month from now.
Phase Two which is on the Fifth Floor,the Attorney's office, we have started that phase on August 281h, and it's scheduled
to be finished in mid-November. Currently the furniture has been moved out of Phase Two area and assessment is being
made for the damage.The occupants have been relocated to a different office facility offsite and are working in an office
near the Public Safety Building.
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Phase Three, which is the other half of the City Council office, is scheduled to start on October 19 and that'll run to
shortly before Christmas.There will be a preliminary walk for that on September 26. So, we are gearing up for Phase
Three. Hopefully you could all hear that.
Rob said, we get the picture.
Catherine said, yes. One question Sean, maybe you can help educate me.The members on this Committee were we to
do a walkthrough prior to final completion. Do we even have any ability to issue any punch list items,for example. I don't
think we do.
Rob and Sean both said no.
Rob said we can point things out,you know issues. But the primary issue at the end of the day is going to be reviewing
when you're walking through and seeing the quality of the work.They have an architect on board with GSBS and their
client is the City.They also have MOCA who is doing the project management. It'll be GSBS' responsibility to respond to
workmanship and issue corrective measures, if necessary, all through the project. Our ability is to look, except when
we're presented items that are changes in the drawings and changes that have been given to us today and our approval
of that. Let's say for example, as Sean mentioned on the northwest corner they've been patching and preparing color
draw downs and they will be doing some mockups.That'll give us the ability to look at the mockup with the team and
give an opinion. but it's not our call to instruct the contractor to do anything.
Catherine said, of course. My question, I'm wanting to make sure we all understand what our responsibility and our role
is in this. So, as Rob is saying, I'm understanding that we can be in an advisory role and we can observe, and then
ultimately, perhaps communicate with GSBS and say here are our observations.
Rob said, also,to the City, and to Sean.
Sean said, we are welcome to that.
Sean said, we did develop a subcommittee which Rob is a member of to help facilitate all of those types of observations.
And I will say whatever Rob says carries a lot of weight. I don't want you to think that his comments are unappreciated at
all, because Rob is well respected in the industry. His comments on behalf of the Committee really matter.
Jim said I also wanted to mention that this process is being done with the oversight of the City's insurance carrier FM
Global and they're the ones that are paying for this so they're making sure they're getting exactly what was on the specs
and what's called out in the drawings.
Rob says,there are a lot of eyes on this.
Sean said, but there will be, I understand that Rob's term is ending soon. Depending on when and how that goes. If Rob
was not a member of the Committee there would need to be someone else identified,to serve in his role.
Rob said, I was going to bring that up, because when they finally approve someone to replace me. I would be more than
happy to continue as Ex-Officio or some other capacity along with some other person perhaps the person who replaces
me. To continue with the Committee while bringing someone else on board to replace. But that's a committee decision.
Jim said,that would totally be a committee decision. How they would like to handle that.
Sean said I'd prefer to have Rob through to the end, he's been along through the whole ride, pretty much.
Rob said, I appreciate that, Sean.
Catherine asked to make it formal should we conduct a motion on it under this agenda item or should we wait until
we're talking about potential Committee Member recruits because I think either way it's easily settled by handling it in
this meeting?
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Rob said maybe we will wait until next meeting when perhaps more people are present on site.
Catherine said,whatever you prefer.
Rob said, it's up to you.
Catherine asked how do others feel? I think that we're all probably in the same mind that we can easily say if Rob wants
to help us, we won't say no.
Rob said I'm happy to do it but let's put it off for a month.
Catherine said, okay Rob is suggesting we put it off for a month. Perhaps we'll table that issue and put it on the agenda
for next month. The fourth agenda item if I am not moving too quickly. Are any other building project updates. And I am
not sure what the fourth agenda item is regarding.
Rob says, this is for Jim and Sean to discuss anything like replacement of the transformer.
Catherine said,yeah okay.
Agenda item 4: Other Building; Project Updates
Jim said, I can address that. The City is having to replace the transformers that are down in the basement of the City and
County Building just outside of the cafe on the east side of the building.That project has been designed. And the
architects have designed the project for it. We've had consultants involved.The plan is to move the generator away from
the site. Over to the boiler room that's on Library Square. And, also to move the transformers so that we no longer have
the transformers on the site of Washington Square. That project is moving right along, it's in the hands of the Building
Department right now and the architects are putting out the bid documents right now.
Rob asked if there will be no excavation and construction work in rebuilding of the vault.
Jim said there will be.There will have to be because all of that will have to be removed.Then the new vault will be put in
where a smaller transformer and switch gear will be put in. To the north of where the existing generator vault is now.
Sean said this is the same design that was previously presented to the Committee and approved by the Committee. The
design was not changed.
Catherine said, yeah.
Jim said that's the extent of my report today, Catherine.
Catherine said, pretty-straight forward. Does anyone have any comments or concerns. Moving on to the Fifth Agenda
item,for the potential Committee Member recruits.
Agenda item 5: Potential Committee Member Recruits
Catherine said I understand that my role trying to chair the committee needs to be purely impartial and to guide
decisions and not to editorialize. I want to give one piece of information then leave it to the rest of you to decide how to
proceed. We have raised the issue potentially nominating Karen Ferguson as the person to replace Rob.The issue arose
that Karen is not a licensed architect and technically perhaps does not meet the Bylaws of the Committee.The
interesting piece of this, that on the very same day that we were having this discussion. That evening she was elected
Architect of the Year by the Women in Architecture group.
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Rob said,that's different. She was not elected by the AIA.
Catherine said, she was not elected as Architect of the Year by the AIA,that is accurate. She was nominated and chosen
for Architect of the Year by the Women in Architecture. As their speech was given, saying she was the Architect of the
Year. It mentioned her lack of licensure and the fact, as she is a single mom with 2 children and working full time, she had
not found the ability to become licensed.And from a feminist standpoint it did not matter to them,they were going to
choose her as Architect of the Year anyway. I just wanted to provide you with this factual information and then stay out
of it.
Jim said good for her. Bravo. I already called Karen and left her a message, but she hasn't responded back yet.
Rob said, as the person leaving this seat. I recommended who I thought would be appropriate.
Jim said, the candidate that Rob put forward,Travis Shepherd, is on the GSBS architect team at this time. And they've
been working on multiple projects in the city for the last ten years. And in the City and County Building specifically. I did
call him, and he will put forth an application to the Mayor. Laura will be helping him get that application put in. But that
will still leave us one member short from the Historical Society.
Sean asked, could Karen fill that seat?
Rob said they could ask Karen.
Jim said they could have her do that under their purview. She definitely has the skill and the knowledge.
Sean said,yeah right.That'd be a win-win I think for everybody.
Jenny said I think Steve was going to contact them.Talk with them. Have you heard back from him?
Jim said, no. Steve was still waiting on them.
Catherine said I haven't heard anything from Steve.
Jim said there was another candidate that we haven't been able to contact yet. We haven't been able to get a hold of
yet.Another applicant.
Laura said yes, and that was Matt Wallace. And I do not have information for him.
Jim said right,Anne Oliver suggested his name, but we didn't get a contact from her.
Laura said she is out of town and won't be back until Wednesday. I'll try to get in touch with her at that point.
Catherine said, so Matt Wallace is with Method Studio, but they don't publish their email so the easiest way to get him is
to call the receptionist and go from there.
Jenny said but was he with. I think we must remember this second person needs to be a part of the historical group.
Jim said, they have to be a member of the Historical Society, or their designee.
Jenny said,yeah right.
Catherine said I think Karen is perhaps a better fit for that role in terms of the historical rather than Method Studio.The
work I've done in the past with Matt hasn't had any ties to historical architecture, but I don't know his full repertoire.
Laura said I know Steve was going to go to the board last Thursday, last week. Since he isn't here, we obviously don't
know what they discussed. But I will try and contact him to see if there was someone that they had selected through the
Historical Society, to see if they had made a recommendation. I'll try to get more information.
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Jim said that'd be great. Before I am no longer associated with this Committee. I'd really like to get some applicants into
the Mayor first, before I leave.
Catherine said, right.
Barbara said, we'd like that too. Hey, is the person supposed to be from the Historical Society or from Preservation Utah?
I thought Steve was representing Preservation Utah.
Jenny said I think Steve is from Preservation Utah,
Barbara said,the Historical Society is a different group.
Jenny said, I just didn't remember the name. Sorry.
Barbara said she just wants to make sure we are contacting the right group. And the Historical Society has split off from
the State store preservation office, So, if it's the State office you are going to. You probably need to reach out to the
SHPO as opposed to the Historical Society. But I kind of think it is Preservation Utah.
Jim said I don't think our instruction has been updated since the change in their management, so we'll have to review
that and see.
Jenny said it's serving the same purpose. Preservation Utah is a separate group. I think that is the idea.
Barbara said yes, Preservation Utah is a private nonprofit, and the Historical Society is state government and SHPO is
state government.
Rob said,that's how Steve got on, it's through SHPO.
Barbara said, was it through SHPO because he is also on the board with Preservation Utah. Or he was.
Catherine said what's published on the webpage at the Saltlakecity.gov page. If we are to believe it's the most accurate.
Which, I don't know if it's up to date, but if we assume that it is. We list Anne Oliver as sitting in the role for the Utah
Historical Society, and we list Steven Cornell in the role for the Utah Heritage Foundation. If that helps the conversation.
Jim said, the Heritage Foundation is now Preservation Utah.
Laura said, right,they just changed names.
Barbara said, probably when you go to the State Historical Society it probably reflects it's the Preservation Utah office.
They split off. They are still in the same building though. Still part of the State government. But that's where all the
preservation people are.
Jenny said, so that is Anne's position.
Rob said, so it is still up to that group to choose. For them to decide. Steve should be coordinating that.
Catherine said, so as Robb has said, I should give Steve a call and I'll discuss it with him, how far he's gotten with that.
Propose with him that potentially Karen might be willing to fill that role if it meets his needs. Does that sound amenable
to everyone?
Jenny asked has anyone heard from Karen wanting to be a part.
Catherine said yes, I reached out to her. She's very enthusiastic and willing to do it but does not want to misrepresent her
qualifications or pretend to be a licensed architect, when she isn't.
Jenny said, I think the holdup is we are bound by the regulation, that says were needed to have one licensed architect so
that's why she does met this. We really can't change that.
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Catherine said, sure. That's why we're thinking maybe the Preservation board knows these people and has worked with
these people for years on building projects. But again perhaps,we should just leave it up to Steve, does that sound like it
would work?
Rob said they're the ones who will make the choice.They may already have somebody in mind and before we color or
try to force them into choosing someone else let's let them make the decision.
Catherine said, Understood. I'll call Steve and give him that message.
Catherine asked, with the lull in the conversation. Are there any other items to discuss under the many numbered
groups?
Jenny said I want to circle back to having Rob staying on question. I know we'll talk about it later as well. But I think it's
probably a good idea, where we're having all our long-term architects leaving, kind of at the same time.Anne is coming
up next. I guess, is she an architect? I am not sure.
Sean said I am not sure either. I don't think she is.
Jenny said, many roles are moving on at the same time.
Laura said, it reflects she's with the Historical Society. It does not mention whether she is an architect.
Jenny said, okay. I think it makes sense, to kind of help with the transition, if we have the new person work on it with
Rob, which I think is a good idea.
Barbara said I do too.
Rob said I'd be happy to do it.
Catherine said, well if there aren't any other issues to bring up. May I have a motion to adjourn this meeting.
Barbara Murphy motioned to adjourn.
Kathy Davis Seconded the motion.
The Council voted unanimously to adjourn.
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