11/06/2023 - Meeting Minutes SALT LAKE CITY
TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD
Minutes of the November 6, 2023 Meeting
Present from the Transportation Advisory Board were Dave Alderman, Jon Larsen, Josh
Stewart, and Suzanne Stensaas.
Electronically present from the Transportation Advisory Board were Daniel Mendoza,
Jim Espeland, John Close, Justice Morath, Pat Casey, Steve Wooldridge, and Leo Masic.
Absent from the Transportation Advisory Board were Isaac Astill, Julie Bjornstad, Greg
Sanchez, and Johnnae Nardone.
Also Present was Heather McLaughlin-Kolb.
Also Electronically present were David Jones,Amy Lyons, Matt Gray, Craig Buschmann,
Julianne Sabula, Becka Roolf, Martin Cuma, caller 8oi-g**-**91, and Chip UDOT.
The meeting was held both electronically and in person and was called to order at 4:01
p.m.by Suzanne Stensaas.
Welcome and Introduction of Guests — Suzanne welcomed everyone. Leo said his
time on TAB is coming to an end as he's moving. He said Matt Gray is planning to apply
for the UTA position on TAB and then Matt told everyone a little bit about himself.
Craig Buschmann also introduced himself. He applied to represent HEAL Utah on TAB
and has his interview with City Council tomorrow.
Motion: Dave Alderman moved to approve the minutes of the October 2, 2023
meeting. Jim Espeland seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Public Comment—There were no public comments.
BAC Monthly Update
Pat Casey, BAC Vice-Chair
Pat was out cycling so Martin gave the BAC update. He said they covered two things at
the last meeting, one of which was the City Creek closures for the water treatment plant
construction. The discussion got a bit heated, and the BAC members felt like Public
Utilities should have approached them about a year before they started the project. They
would have liked to have had a better discussion about how the project could have been
adjusted so the recreation in City Creek could be accommodated throughout
construction. BAC wasn't satisfied with the answers they received from Public Utilities,
so Martin's plan is to draft a letter and have it up for a vote at their next meeting. They
want to let Public Utilities know that they should have involved the stakeholders before
they start designing the project. The second topic was the Transportation Master Plan
which everyone was basically happy to hear about. The plan is proceeding and it's more
multi-modal oriented than the previous one. Suzanne asked if they were aware of the
changes being made to City Creek after the initial plan regarding how the use of City
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Creek would change to accommodate bicyclists. Martin said yes and that their plan is to
open it on weekends and holidays up to wherever they put the gate, and they still don't
want to open the hiking trails even though it's a mile away from the construction site.
He's not happy with it and he thinks they should have set up the construction plans to
keep it open all the way to the top. They basically just seem unwilling to change their
construction plan and he understands that now,but they should have discussed this
with BAC a year ago and perhaps set up the closures in a way that would be more
accommodating to users. Suzanne asked if there was any potential flexibility and Jon
said they were involved in Bonneville Drive and keeping the pathway there open, but
Transportation hasn't been involved. She asked if Transportation could take the side of
the hikers and cyclists and Jon said TAB and BAC can if they feel that strongly about it.
Jon said Public Utilities left the BAC meeting saying they would be willing to evaluate
how they're doing it,but the top priority is clean water. Martin wants to draft a letter to
the Director of Public Utilities, and he would be happy to do it as a joint BAC/TAB letter
which TAB can review and vote on it at their next meeting. Justice asked if the BAC
would be addressing the cyclist fatality that occurred with the Frontrunner. Matt said it
happened at the goo South crossing and it was a situation where there was a Union
Pacific train at the crossing and a Frontrunner train, and the deceased individual did not
see the frontrunner coming in. Justice said there are some questions about visibility
and design, and it seems it might be set up for failure. Jon said as part of the g-Line
design, they have funding to set up some safety features at the crossings which should be
implemented in the spring.
Mapping the 5+5 Program with Pavement Condition to Find Cross-
Department Collaborations
Becka Roolf, SLC Transportation&David Jones, SLC Engineering
Becka recapped a prior discussion with TAB related to project selection. She would now
like to speak with them about how this scoring and the resulting projects overlap with
the topic of pavement condition and the overall condition index of roadways that the
Engineering Division tracks. While that is somewhat embedded in their scoring process,
there's more opportunity to look for projects in common that are of interest to both
Engineering and Transportation when looking at the pavement condition in more detail.
She introduced David Jones who is going to tell them a little bit about pavement
conditions, how it's scored and evaluated and then they will show a mapping tool both
divisions are using to help identify opportunities to partner. David said they know the
roads in the city are in poor condition and they wish they had more money to address
those roads. He said the last year was very difficult on pavement due to lots of snow,
lots of infiltration of freeze/thaw cycles, and heavy use of snowplows. In 2017 they
conducted their second full city survey using a van with measurement instruments and
in 2018 those survey results were presented to the City Council. At that time, 65% of the
roads were rated poor or worse. They rated and ranked roads based on 2 functions, and
he explained that rating system which included counting faults in the road. The Mayor
and Council then decided to move forward with a bond that was set aside just for roads.
They are now about 3/4 of the way through that $87 million bond and have 2 more years
of pavement construction based on those results. In October 2021, they did another full
city pavement survey, and the good news is that the overall condition went up. The bulk
share of the roads are local roads, and the remaining are arterial collector roads. They
had decided in 2o18 to put the bulk of their funds into arterial collector roads and keep
those in good condition. They are now going to make a proposal that with this next
funding cycle, if approved by voters, they work on local roads rather than arterial
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collectors. Becka showed a map which overlays the road condition information along
with the projects Transportation tentatively has on their slate to propose for funding.
She said this is kind of their roadmap for things they want to apply for funding for.
There are two things on this map, one is all the projects Transportation has in mind to
pursue for the next io years. Also included is pavement condition and David has
suggested they look primarily at the streets that are already failed in addition to serious
condition or very poor, as candidates for reconstruction. They try to find streets that, if
it makes sense for both Engineering and Transportation, they can both ask for funding
and work together to improve them. Becka explained again what 5+5 is which is a io-
year program of projects that Transportation is working on collaborating with
Engineering and other Divisions of the city. It is a io-year program of projects that they
would like to apply for funding. Jon said they are also working on improving
collaboration with Parking, Public Lands, Public Utilities, street lighting and other
groups that impact the right of way. Becka answered some specific questions related to
the map and Suzanne asked if they could send this to the TAB, so they had time to look
closely and digest it because it's a lot of good effort and a lot of good news. Martin asked
how recent the map is as some of the streets showing bad have been redone. Becka said
this is a snapshot in time from 2021 so it is not completely up to date, they just need to
swap out the data but it's not quite ready. Engineering has also worked out a
deterioration curve so they can estimate what condition a street will be in based on the
rate at which streets fall apart. Daniel said since they are discussing road deterioration,
are they considering UTA bus route changes and Becka said they are not yet doing this.
David reported that the Mayor has said given the state of the roads, she would like to
push up the pavement survey to occur sooner rather than every 5 years, so they are on
track to have another survey in 2025. Martin asked if they were willing to visually
inspect roads that seem worse than what they are ranked, and he gave some examples.
David said they do look at citizen requests but even though the roads Martin mentioned
were bad, there are worse roads. He said he would be willing to go out and look at
Martin's areas of concern with him or at least discuss this offline. Suzanne asked if
David would be willing to be a liaison for BAC and help them with perceived road issues
and he said he would be willing to do that.
Annual Elections Discussion
TAB Members
Becka wanted to discuss the TAB election process and how it's going for them. Becka
asked how they do their elections and Amy said they nominate candidates and then the
Board votes. Her other question was if there is a job description and the members said
they aren't aware of one. Suzanne said in the past, if someone has a topic they are
particularly interested in, they will form a sub-committee or investigate the subject on
their own and bring it to the Board. Becka said BAC has used an alternative process for
elections in the past, but Amy said BAC has been doing it the same way as TAB. Becka
said when BAC first started, there was an alternative process for elections that would
sometimes help with leadership if that were a challenge. She explained the alternative
process which includes job descriptions. She shared those BAC job descriptions and
asked the TAB members if they would like to re-write those to reflect what TAB does.
Overall, the members felt these job descriptions were general goals for all members and
not specific to the Chair or Vice Chair. Suzanne said it wouldn't hurt to circulate those
descriptions before they vote next time to make sure the people who were nominated
agreed to them. Dave said they aren't really what the Chair does such as run the
meeting or set the agenda, it looks like a member description. They discussed some
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potential changes and Becka took notes. Suzanne said if they're going to have a
description for the Chair and Vice Chair, they should also have a description for all
board members. Suzanne said to restructure this, should really be offline and she and
Greg will go through them and send a draft to Becka or Amy to distribute prior to the
next meeting. They will make this an agenda item for discussion and a vote at the next
meeting along with elections.
TAB Priorities for Discussion in 2024 / Meeting Schedule Approval
TAB Members
Suzanne and Dave talked about the updates they've had in the past from various
entities. Jon said the most important function that TAB can fill is on project and
funding priorities, topics where they weigh in and there is real change. Suzanne asked
how the Board can be most helpful, if there is a particular area they can focus on. Jon
said reviewing the projects and providing feedback. Josh asked if the map they looked
at earlier was for upcoming projects. Jon said earlier in the year, Becka showed the
entire 5+5 list which are big project decisions. Jon said CIP and project priorities go
hand in hand and Becka said some of the funding sources are ones that select projects
which won't be funded for 5-7 years but, CIP is a fairly quick turn around on funds.
Suzanne asked what month they would be most helpful on CIP and Becka said there was
originally a schedule for them to review these in the spring. She said then a draft list
would be available around August,just in time for some of the funding applications.
Right now, they are applying for CIP in between September and November. There are
quite a few in the fall but she'd like to get on a cycle where they look at a draft in the
spring and then finalize that list. Jon said another layer to consider is to coordinate with
the BAC like at the June joint meeting. Suzanne asked if it would be appropriate for
DOT to make a list of topics they are most interested in having feedback on and what
month they would like that. Becka said that would be reasonable and having the yearly
suggested topics is hard because things are a little more fluid and open to opportunity.
Josh asked if Transportation gets money from new real estate development and Jon said
they do get impact fees, but they can only spend that according to their impact plan.
There was some discussion about utility fees and possibly having that as a future agenda
topic.
Motion: Dave Alderman moved to approve the 2024 Meeting Schedule. Justice
Morath seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Report Out — By Members
Dave said Daniel previously brought up the issue of buses on local streets and that there
is one road in the Avenues where it is very steep, and the bus really is tearing the road
up. He thinks most people agree that they want to keep the bus service, but those big
buses aren't built to climb steep hills and there needs to be an equipment change. Jon
said if it's a pavement issue, that's something they need to talk to the Engineering team
about. He said they've talked about overlaying the bus routes on the map and seeing if
they need to put thicker pavement or move from asphalt to concrete on those routes.
Josh asked what the process for going back and seeing if the pavement condition map
was successful and Jon said it's a brand-new program, so they haven't fully set up the
before and after analysis. Josh said a couple of good factors would be if the speed was
lowered and what the public perception is. Dave said Reid's graduate students have
gone out and done studies like that in the past. Jon said their statistical analysis helped
bring that program back. Jon said Transportation staff can go out and measure speeds
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and Josh said he would highly recommend that to see if it's working. Suzanne brought
up a concern about the bulb-outs related to cycling. Jon said there are pros and cons to
every mitigation effort. Jim said on goo West and California Avenue, they installed
some triangular curbs to separate the bike lane from the cars and they are all completed
but he's heard some complaints about cars not being able to turn right on red if
someone is going straight in front of them. He said it looks like they've been done with
those for about a month,but they still have the barrels on top of the curbs and there's
also a lot of tire marks on the curbs. It also seems like the bicycle lane that is left is
almost wide enough for a car. He's wondering if they're leaving the barrels because cars
are not knowing where to go. Jon said there's always a lag between when the concrete is
down, and when they put the signage and striping in. It's usually a subcontractor that
does that, so the City often leaves it up to them and leaves the barrels until they get the
final formal signage in place. He said the signage is forthcoming. Suzanne asked Jim to
report back next month and let them know if it's been done. Daniel asked about North
Temple from 30o East moving eastward, the bus lane and the bike lane are essentially
shared. He's wondering if they are shared on 200 South because quite frankly, the bike
lane is dangerous, it doesn't get swept and it rises to meet the bus stop so there is
basically a ramp going up and then a ramp going down. He has run into other cyclists
who have asked if they can ride in the bus lane. He just wanted to bring that up for
consideration because it doesn't look like a street sweeper could sweep that section and
it is very slippery with all the leaves and debris. Jon said the reason they put the bike
lanes behind the bus stops is because there are so many buses along that corridor, they
didn't want the bikes to have to fight the buses. He doesn't see any reason not to use the
bus lane if there is no bus.
Motion: Josh Stewart motioned to adjourn the meeting; Jim Espeland seconded the
motion. The motion passed unanimously.
The meeting was adjourned at 5:35 p.m. and the next meeting of the Board is scheduled
for December 4, 2023.
TAB WebEx Meeting Chat
from Sabula, Julianne to everyone: 4:04 PM
Welcome @Matt! We'll miss you dearly, @Leo! I hope you'll continue
sending us cool bus stop photos.
from Sabula, Julianne to everyone: 4:07 PM
Welcome @ Craig!
from Lyons,Amy to everyone: 4:15 PM
Since it wasn't on the agenda, you can't take action.
from Patrick Casey to everyone: 4:i6 PM
I have things to say but I'll share them with Martin and contribute to the
letter
from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 4:19 PM
The very similar fatality in the past was during the 999 ride in 2O18.
from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 4:27 PM
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thanks to the Whale!
from Martin Cuma to everyone: 4:39 PM
I am wondering how recent is the map you are showing, Becka. For
example, 1700 S between 170o E and igoo S is red, but it was rebuilt a few
years ago and is in perfect condition. On the contrary, 1700 S between 1loo
E and 130o E has large bulges that make one on a bike "hop" going
downhill, which is very dangerous at speed with loads (sometimes
"precious loads"), and it's showing as orange.
from Craig Buschmann he/him to everyone: 4:44 PM
I had the same question, Martin. Kensington Ave. between 8th E &9th E
was completely repaved earlier this year.
from Sabula, Julianne to everyone: 4:56 PM
Ranked choice!
from Justice Morath to everyone: 5:00 PM
yes, they look more like qualifications instead of job duties
from Jones, David to everyone: 5:04 PM
Thanks to everyone. I (David Jones from Engineering) need to jump off. My
email is david jones(&slcgov.com
from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:20 PM
For most of our projects, the maximum impact fees are io%.
from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:21 PM
Good questions!
from Sabula, Julianne to everyone: 5:33 PM
This is great on-the-ground info and a good question. This is a new design
for us in SLC, so feedback is really helpful.
Approved by the Transportation Advisory Board 12-4-23.
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