12/11/2023 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES
SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE
HYBRID MEETING HELD, DECEMBER 11, 2023
w
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT ,••�� ;;� EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT
Catherine Tucker, Committee Chair \ I / Riley Bird, SLC Facilities
Barbara Murphy, Committee Member malt�!akr COP&QCotnttn$iuilbhtg Laura Marshall, SLC Facilities
Con5rrban.&ESE QConunittet
Kathy Davis, Committee Member - Sean Fyfe, SLC Engineering
Anne Oliver, Committee Member Josh Lander, SLC Facilities
Jennifer Hale, Committee Member ; f
Travis Sheppard, Committee Member Mak: January 8, 2024
Robyn Taylor-Granda, Committee Membe
COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT ---------
John Kemp, Committee Vice Chair -
Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by taking a role
call as follows: Laura Marshall, Salt Lake City Facilities;Josh Lander, Salt Lake City Facilities; Robyn Taylor-Granda,
Committee Member; Sean Fyfe, Salt Lake City Engineering; Travis Sheppard, Committee Member; Catherine Tucker,
Committee Chair; Barbara Murphy, Committee Member; Kathy Davis, Committee Member; Anne Oliver, Committee
Member; and Jenny Hale, Committee Member.
Agenda Item 1: Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes
Catherine gave everyone a moment to review the minutes then asked if anyone had any comments or if someone would
like to motion to approve the minutes.
Jenny Hale motioned to approve the minutes.
Kathy Davis Seconded the motion.
The Committee unanimously voted to approve the minutes.
Catherine Tucker wanted to acknowledge the passing of Robert Pett and wanted to give condolences to his family and
say what a big impact he has had on our community. Catherine worked with Rob for five years at MJSA and had worked
with him at Salt Lake City ever since. And we can't underestimate the impact Rob has had on many of the historical
structures in the city.And it is with great sadness that he has passed unexpectedly. Catherine asked if anyone else
wanted to share remembrances.
Travis Sheppard stated absolutely, Rob nominated me for this Committee, and I have been following him in his footsteps
in previous projects for years. And it wasn't until I started working on the City and County Building that I got to work
with him personally. I am going to miss him a lot.
Sean Fyfe stated Rob was an icon in the architectural community and his passing is a big loss for our industry and our
profession. He offered a lot and contributed a lot to this committee and was much appreciated.
1
Agenda Item 2: Introduction of Riley Bird, Facilities Director, Travis Sheppard and Robyn Taylor-Granda, New
Committee Members, &Josh Lander, City Hall Building Administrator
Riley Bird stated he took over Jim's position. He has been with Salt Lake City Corporation for 16 years. I have a bachelor's
degree from Utah Valley State College in Facilities Management and an associate degree. And have worked in Facilities
Management for many years and enjoy working in this field.
Travis Sheppard stated he has been an architect for 22 yrs. He spent much of his career working on historic buildings.
And has recently been working on the City and County Building. And have really enjoyed working with Sean Fyfe and his
team. Love the building and is really excited to serve.
Robyn Taylor-Granda stated I was just hired with Preservation Utah in October as the Historic Properties Program
Manager. Replacing Steve Cornell who was on this Committee. Steve Cornell was re-assigned as the Chairperson for the
Historic Arts Use Committee. So, he is now on another committee. She has a degree in Architectural Studies, with an
emphasis in Historic Preservation,from the University of Utah. And has been in architecture, engineering and millwork
for the last 25 years.And now finally, has the opportunity to go back into what she has wanted to do, which is Historic
Preservation.
Josh Lander stated he is the new Building Administrator and has been with the city a month and a half. Prior to working
here, he attended California Maritime Academy with a degree in Marine Transportation.And he worked on commercial
ships for over a decade. He has an associate degree in marine diving technologies. He used to be a commercial diver. He
is very familiar with structures and ship structures. Not so much with buildings but very familiar with keeping assets in
line and working on them and keeping buildings updated.
Catherine stated welcome to everyone. We talked in our last meeting about having a lot of new faces on the committee,
including myself, I am recent to join this committee. So that the new people on the committee can get up to speed and
don't feel like they're scrambling to understand how the committee works. In the next few months, we will have a
working session to go over the design guidelines that the committee has already drawn up. So that the rest of us who are
new to this can make sure we are implementing everything as the committee has foreseen. So don't worry if you don't
know exactly what we are supposed to be doing. Neither do I, but we'll figure this out together.
Agenda Item 3: Review Hanging System of the Mayoral Portraits
Travis has provided a collection of images for picture rail systems with hanging mechanisms, hanging hardware examples
and spec sheets for hanging hardware used for smaller and larger artwork and a parts list of items needed including D-
Rings, wire and brass hooks used to hang artwork. Also, an image of what the D-Ring looks like attached to the frame on
the back of the picture. As well as different profile styles of picture railing molding that can be used. And 4 different
images of the proposed brass hooks which could be used to hang the Mayoral Portraits.
Travis provided images of different hanging systems which could be used. Per the City&County Building guidelines,for
priority spaces where permanent wall hangings are hung in a gallery, a hanging picture rail should be installed to avoid
puncturing plaster walls. He provided a photo image of what the first-floor current picture rail system looks like which
has a contemporary detail for the pictures being hung on the picture rail. He would like to propose going back to a
period correct picture railing system for the Mayoral Portraits. He provided a photo image of the hallway where they
want to hang the Mayoral Portraits which needs a picture rail system added. And a few photo images of the picture
railing system in the Council Chamber. He provided these photos so he could show the committee what the current
picture railing systems are in the building.
Travis mentioned that some people struggle using picture railing systems because they don't like to see the wires
handing down from the picture railing to the picture. But this system is period appropriate as this is what would have
been in place at the time the building was originally designed. And the guidelines recommend this.
2
Travis said regarding the picture rail images provided on pages 7, 8, and 9 which is the Council Chamber room's current
picture rail molding system being used, that is that line below the crown molding at the top of the wall.This molding
profile is what we would like to use for the Mayor's Portraits. On page 9 it shows that the picture rail molding stops
before the trim around the door. He proposed we transition to the wall differently, I don't think this was done very
successfully here, where it is just stops. He would suggest the picture rail should dead end into the molding or turn back
to the wall to look more uniform.
Travis provided some photos of 4 different decorative hooks (shown on pages 14 through 17)to choose from which
would be attached to the picture rail system. He also said we should consider using brass, copper wire or anodized wire,
verses a bright shiny wire,to soften the look. On page 11,this image is a close-up of the hanging d-rings on the back of
the portraits themselves. He stated we would not need to change the hanging system on the portrait frames themselves.
But we would probably want to add some cushions to the back of the frame, so we don't damage the wall.
Travis proposed we follow the guidelines and go to a picture rail system for the Mayor's Portraits. The nice thing about
this system is as each Mayor comes and goes, we can easily add new pictures and re-organize the pictures on this rail
system and there will be no damage to the wall.
Catherine stated aesthetically I don't have any objections. Structurally her concerns were with the anchoring into the
plaster and what is the density and load bearing capacity of the wood rail. To me that is the weak point of the
connection. And the difference in capacity with the guide wire and the metal hook itself to be able to handle the load of
the pictures on the picture rail system.
Travis said absolutely the picture rail would have to be engineered. We would have to have an engineer look at this. We
would have expansion anchors through the plaster into the brick behind it. So, it would not be supported by the plaster.
And if you can imagine the anchors at 16, 18, or 24 inches from the center and each one of these having a sheer strength
of 1500 lbs. I think we are going to be good.
Catherine said absolutely that would completely take care of any concerns I have. And this would meet any seismic
concerns as well. I do think it needs to be engineered as you indicated.
Anne asked about the picture rail whether it would be painted or stained.Travis stated it would be painted to match the
trim color.
Anne preferred the plainer version of the hooks presented which would match better historically and agreed that the
picture rail molding should blend into the current trim with a mitered end going to the trim to look more finished.
Robyn liked the last hook shown, its shape is very elegant looking and does not have any other decoration on it.
Catherine prefers hooks that flair at the top because it distributes the load on the wood and would hold the picture out
further. Which would not cause denting on the wood and less likely to cause any damage to the picture or wall. She
prefers the plain verse of the hooks with the flair at top to distribute the load on the wood.
Sean asked about the height of the picture railing.
Travis stated he will have to investigate that based on the number of pictures, height&size. Travis said he will be coming
back to the Committee with suggested hooks styles for review and suggested height of the picture rail.
Catherine asked him to research into the precedence of past picture railing systems, where should it die into, and where
is it appropriate to have it. So that the corridor will show uniformity with the Chambers as much as possible, so that one
relates to the other. Catherine also asked about the timeline.
Travis stated there is no timeline at this time because it needs to be presented to the Arts Council before the pictures can
be hung.
Kathy Davis mentioned she is also on the Arts Council so she will provide the images of the picture rail system to them in
her next meeting.
3
Agenda Item 4: Discuss Proposed Additional Gates for Security Purposes in Room 315 & 326 Progress
Josh stated that he had worked with Jeff once on this but because there was still work going on in the rooms there has
not been much progress. Jeff cannot do the plans & specs until the work is completed and furniture put in their
permanent location.
Josh stated the concerns are in the COW and how the COW security gate would close against a piece of furniture and
being attached to this piece of furniture. So, the piece of furniture needs to be put back in its permanent location so we
can accurately gauge the size of the gate.Jeff is the only carpenter for the city, and he is extremely busy. So, I think that's
what we are waiting on, is the COW to be completed.
Sean asked so are we shooting for a mockup next meeting. And Josh said we would have to talk with Jeff.
Travis mentioned that Rob & I discussed this. One of our concerns is where that gate aligns on the outside wall where
there is the existing wainscotting in the Chamber.The wall that is there,the dais wall,there are a lot of opportunities for
where to place it but the outside wall and the existing there's a rhythm to the panels which portions of that would be
hard to align and make work with the furniture. One of the things Rob and I thought about was what if that gate was free
standing. What if those posts went down and were cantilevered up from the floor so it would be essentially stand-alone
free standing with a gap so we would not have to try to match or modify the wainscotting. Which is something to
consider.
Riley and Josh confirmed that is what Jeff is considering.
Josh said,Jeff is going to do 2 separate posts because it is a raised floor in there. So, he is going to do metal posts down
through the raised floor and then a wood panel box that will slide over covering the metal posts.And there was some
discussion in the Chamber of where to put the gate. Because there is some audio/video equipment that is permanently
mounted which would affect the swing of the gate. And we are still deciding if we are going to go with a full swing or just
swing one direction. So, I think when can get a mockup, we can do a walk-through review there and you guys can get an
idea of what is appropriate for the area.
Travis asked who decides the swing is that the Committee.Josh said yes that is what you will be deciding on. Sean said
also Nate in security will be making that decision. You may not want a full swing if you are concerned with security. It will
probably be swinging one way with some kind of latch for security purposes.
Travis asked is there a timeline or deadline in which it must be done by a certain month? Riley said not that I am aware
of. Josh said that is driven by the Mayor or Nate the Security what they are deciding here and the timeline they need.
The Committee members stated, so the items we are still concerned with are we need a general mockup plan. Which will
provide a clear understanding of how this was going to be executed as far as traffic flow and furniture and where the
gates are going to be. Along with a mockup planned drawing of the gate and interior elevations.Travis, I don't know if
you have blank drawing already set up for those rooms that you could help provide to them, so they can show us.
Anything you could do to help explain this to the committee, so we know what this is and where it is going to be.
Travis said he will look and see what he can find.And Robyn offered to help, she can do overlays if Travis has a blank
drawing.
Sean commented that the drawings previously presented were very rough hand sketches and were limited to just an
elevation of the gates only and did not give the details needed.
Riley asked if Engineering has some extra time if they could assist Jeff Brown on this and draw this mockup. Since Jeff is a
good carpenter but this is not his expertise.
Sean said Karilyn may have some time. We are willing to help there.Just let us know Riley. I am sure Karilyn could help
and would probably really enjoy it.
4
Catherine said when we are going to have a walk-through be sure to give the Committee sufficient notice ahead of time.
So that as many committee members as possible know we have the materials and mockup prepared. And Laura knows
ahead of time so she can alert the committee members with sufficient time so they can plan to attend in person. For
right now we are still in a holding pattern for this project.
Agenda Item S: Earthquake Remediation Update
Sean said just to refresh everyone's memory. We have 10 phases and currently we are actively in 5 phases. Phases 1
through 5 all have activity. Phase 1 City Council office Third floor west side is very near to being completed.There is just a
little bit of repair work with a couple items on the punch list still needed.That is near completed as of today.
Phase 2 is the Fifth floor Attorney's office is essentially complete.There are a few punch list items that need to be
addressed but they are very minor as I understand it. One outstanding item there,Travis, correct me if I am wrong, we
are waiting on file samples for the repair work on the fifth floor. Correct. So,there is more Phase 2 work,that will need
to be worked into the remaining phases for this to be completed.
Phase 3 is on the other side of the Council Office, the east side on the Third floor and there is punch list box that is
scheduled for this week on this phase. So really Phases 1,2, and 3 are very close to being completed but are not
completed yet. After the punch list items, which have been very small.Those phases will probably wrap up right before
Christmas in their entirety.
Phase 4 on the Fourth floor,the Planning division on the south end of the Fourth floor,there is plaster repair work
ongoing there & it is scheduled to be complete January 171". This was extended from the original timeline of January
10t" and formally extended to January 17t".This extension does impact Phase 6 which I will get to in a minute.
Phase 5 is the Mayor's office, it's the south end of the Third floor that started just last week. Furniture has been moved
out of that area. Our subcontractors, plasterers& painting contractors with Evergreen, are all going through their
assessment of that area.That area is scheduled to be completed in the last week of February right now. Phase 6 as I
mentioned before is being impacted by Phase 4. 1 think Phase 6 was scheduled to start January 171". It looks like now it
will start January 22"d which is a Monday. We are discussing this schedule change with Paulsen. So that will need to be
coordinated with the occupants.The north side of level 4 is where CAN and other divisions & departments are located.
But one interesting item to note. Our original schedule for Phase 5 was having the Mayor's office completed in one phase
&then very early on the Mayor office requested we do it in 2 phases. We worked with the insurance provider and our
contractors to implement a 5A and 5B which extend our operations out to October of 2024. And in working with the
Mayor's office on actually getting the work done. It was decided they wanted to go back to making it a single phase
again. So that is something we have in the works right now which has reduced our schedule back to our original
completion date which is around August 2024 of this year. Which is a positive note in the overall completion of the
project. So that's my update for now unless you have some questions.
Catherine states in terms of impacting this committee and our ability to meet in person, will we now have continued
ability to meet in person. Or will there be subsequent interruptions in terms of our committee meetings. Sean stated you
should be all set. There should be no issues moving forward.This room was part of phase 2. Laura confirmed the Cutler
Room has been reserved every month going forward.
Agenda Item 6: Discuss Subcommittee Member Replacement
Sean stated so obviously this is related to Rob's passing. For those who may not recall or were not on the committee at
the time. We have a project management team and have a request for a representative from this committee to be part
of our project management team for the City and County building Earthquake remediation repair. And the committee
had nominated Rob to fill that role, which he did exceptionally well. Rob was available whenever we needed him for
5
something. And the idea was so Rob could make decisions on behalf of the committee so as they came up on the project
that we were not being held hostage from a timeline standpoint of monthly meetings. And with his passing we need to
act to have the committee nominate someone else to represent the committee for our project.
Sean asked who on this committee wants to represent the committee at our next project meeting. Sean gave his opinion
and feels Travis would be good because he already attends this meeting as a consultant for GSBS. He could wear two hats
at the meeting. But the committee needs to nominate someone to represent them.
Anne asked wouldn't that represent a conflict of interest though. An Employee of the city representing on behalf of the
Committee.
Sean stated I have thought about that, and Travis would have to recuse himself as our city consultant if he is representing
the committee and say he is representing the committee now in any discussion we have. Or vice versa state he is
representing himself as a consultant for the city and not representing the committee during discussion not related to
what the Committee oversees. It would have to be something like that in our meetings with Travis.
Travis said I and Rob had a conversation about this previously when he nominated me for the committee. We went
through it and were looking at the rules. Any time when money is involved, I would have to recuse myself. Or when a
firm or someone was being chosen for future work, I would obviously recuse myself. But outside of that I would just echo
what Sean said. If there was some kind of conflict, I would have to choose one side or the other. Be clear about who I am
representing.
Catherine asked and this would be just for this project. Sean said,yes just for this special project. This is not our normal
procedure because this project needed the committee's involvement, it was decided to have a nominee from the
Committee be part of the special project meetings.
Catherine stated the only thing I wanted to weigh in on was, as a fellow member of the American Institute of Architect
that we have an ethical standard that we are held to, and I think this address this. And I am sure Travis is well familiar
with this, and we, all of us, take that oath very, very seriously. And I have no doubt that Travis can act in the best interest
to this building, not necessarily in his best financial interest, because this is what Travis does every single day as a
practicing architect in all of his work. It's what all of us are trained to do. I personally do not have qualms with him
serving both roles and I think Travis if there was any situation where you felt there may be a conflict of interest and
should recuse yourself from a vote you can always bring it to the committee, right.
Travis said thank you Catherine,that is very kind of you. I think also with Sean also being in these committee meetings
we can serve as a check and balance as well. Sean stated however I am not a voting member. I am only here for
commentary. Travis said this is true. But I will accept whatever this Committee wants.
Kathy Davis asked my only question is this nomination part of the agenda. Is this on the agenda as a notice for action.
Laura confirmed it was on the agenda. Catherine confirmed it says discuss Subcommittee member replacement. Kathy
Davis stated this is sufficient for a notice of action, if it is on the agenda and that we are going to take action on it.
Catherine asked does anyone have any further discussion, if not, then can we have a motion to vote on the nominee to
represent the Committee on the Subcommittee project meetings.
Kathy Davis stated someone needs to make a motion and it should be seconded and then we take a vote.
Kathy Davis motioned that Travis be appointed as the Committee Representative member for the Subcommittee Project
meetings.
Catherine Tucker asked do we have a second?
Barbara Murphy Seconded the motion.
Catherine asked all in favor of Travis becoming the Committee Representative member for the Subcommittee Project to
replace Rob on the Earthquake remediation project.All those in favor say I.
6
All committee members voted to approve. Catherine stated the motion has passed.Travis is now approved to represent
the Committee at the Subcommittee project meetings.
Agenda Item 7: Review Amended & Restated Policies & Procedures
Catherine asked if Jayson was ready to start this review. Laura explained she had been texting Jayson and unfortunately,
he was in another meeting which was running long and would not be able to attend this meeting. So, we will need to
table this agenda item unless there is anything the Committee wanted to discuss. Catherine said she did have some
revisions but thought we would need Jayson here to discuss those with him. This agenda item should be tabled until the
next meeting. Laura said I will add this to the next meeting.
Agenda Item 8: Other Building Project Updates
Sean said we have a potential project coming. Nathan Kobs, Security Manager,for the city has secured some funding to
protect Washington Square and the City and County Building from threats. It's very early in the discussions of that
project and technically not funded yet. He has some funding set aside and he has made a request to the engineering
department and is expecting to get permission. We will eventually be presenting this to this committee for approval. We
are calling it"Forced Protection" which will focus on vehicular threats and pedestrian threats. There will be a gate as part
of the project.This is coming but it is at the very beginning of discussions which started about 2 weeks ago. We don't
have a consultant on board. We are planning on hiring GSBS for the initial study. But I wanted to make you are all aware
that is coming down the pipeline.
Catherine asked,just to make sure we are on the right side of all our ethical guidelines is Salt Lake City required to have
this sent out for public solicitation? Or is it under the limits of budgetary requirements, that it can be privately awarded
to GSBS.
Sean said the design services can be awarded under our approved city contractors which GSBS is one. But when it comes
to construction of the actual improvements that will be most likely be sent out for the public bidding process.
Catherine asked if there is anything else anyone wants to speak about or add. Otherwise, can I have a motion to adjourn.
Travis asked if we will have on the next month's agenda the portrait hanging system and the security gate. Catherine
asked if we could add it to next month's agenda to discuss when we want to have a working session for the new
members to discuss the committee guidelines. Laura said she will add these items to next month's agenda.
Catherine Tucker asked for a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Barbara Murphy motioned to adjourn the meeting.
Kathy Davis Seconded the motion.
The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn.
7