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12/18/2023 - Meeting Minutes SALT LAKE CITY BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE Minutes of the December 18, 2023 Meeting BAC Members Present for this meeting were Martin Cuma, Matthew Morriss, and Sarah Johnson. BAC Members Electronically Present for this meeting were Alla Chernenko,Ashley Lodmell, Ben Trueman, Greta Sommerfeld, Laura Lewis, Patrick Casey, and Rachel Manko. BAC Members Absent for this meeting were Joshua Poppel, Max McLeod, and Raymond Reynolds. Also present were Lt. Wooldridge and Jon Larsen. Also present electronically were Heather McLaughlin-Kolb,Amy Lyons, Bryan Meenen, Dave Iltis, Becka Roolf, Julianne Sabula, Matthew Gray, DeDe Murray, and Geoff Dupaix. The meeting was held both electronically via WebEx and in person and was called to order at 5:02 p.m. by Martin Cuma. Martin welcomed everyone. Approval of Minutes Motion: Martin Cuma moved to approve the minutes of the November 20, 2023 meeting. Sarah Johnson seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Public Comment— Dave Iltis said Transportation was able to add outside lane striping on ioo south between goo east and 13oo east. It is a very small compromise on the part of SLC Transportation given they really needed a road diet. It actually helped, there are some places where you can ride your bike and it's a little bit calmer. He's asked Transportation but has yet to receive a response on when they're going to do the uphill bike lane and downhill sharrows between 13oo East and University like they talked about. Since that lane striping went in, he would like to know what it's doing to speeds. When he drives that, it seems the speeds are lower, and it would be a natural experiment to see what's happening with the speeds there. He also talked to BAC last time about Gladiola Street (3200 West) and whether the striping was done but when he went out there, it was kind of chaos. Some of it is done but it just doesn't look complete, and it would be great to understand what Transportation is doing there. There's still a pile of unfinished bike lanes due to Streets lack of coordination, he listed examples. He doesn't know why Streets can't get their act together and do get these done. On Boo East around 80o South there is a speed limit of 25mph, it's a neighborhood byway and this is unacceptable. He asked about that and was given the response that it's a collector,which really makes no sense to him. The SLC speed limit setting process is broken. goo south was repaved, and the street is still 3omph even where they narrowed it and added a new trail around Lincoln Street, it doesn't make sense. There is a new Page 1 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes South Temple study coming in to look at a complete South Temple bike project and he wrote a letter of support, and this is a project the Committee could find out more about. Lastly, on Division Lane, there are some relatively new speed bumps there; they're nice and smooth but aren't like the ones on Zoo North which are absolutely awful for bicycles. The ones on Division Lane are concrete,but they're set in asphalt around them and they're great. He doesn't know what the design is in the Marmalade area but there's a real problem there with the speed bumps. Martin asked Jon about the speed limits and said to be clear, it is his understanding that Transportation looks at these things on a step-by-step basis and even though it's 3omph now, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be that in the future. Jon said they have been working on a thorough analysis of collector and arterial speed limits. It is likely during the first part of 2024 that they will be updating a lot of street speed limits around the city. He said there will be a lot of speed limit lowering happening. Martin is concerned about those cars blocking the bike lanes being repainted. He said the speed bumps are probably a similar situation to the speed bumps put on 1300 South and Jon said they've gotten really good feedback on those. Jon said the ones in Marmalade were asphalt which cost 1/2 as much and they will be doing more of those. Since there is a severe speeding problem in that area, Transportation has told the contractor to err on the side of steeper bumps to slow cars down more not less. They deal with a tremendous amount of traffic. Dave asked for an answer on the uphill bike lane on ioo South. Jon said they can't do it now, but he doesn't see why they can't put it in, and he will verify where that project is at. Traffic Signals Bryan Meenen Becka introduced Bryan and said he has been a fantastic collaborator and is a wizard about traffic signals. She appreciates his approach,his technical knowledge, and his willingness to collaborate. He is the expert on these things in Transportation in SLC and she is appreciative of his expertise. Bryan did not prepare a specific presentation and asked what questions the Committee might have. Laura said she's run into the problem more as a pedestrian and asked what kind of timing has been given for crossing an intersection for people who are running red lights. She said pedestrians lose several seconds waiting for people to finish going through red lights. Bryan said there are specific values they use, formulas for calculating a yellow and an all red for every phase before it can change to the next phase. He explained these formulas and updates they have made to those formulas. He said as a pedestrian, there is a standard of 7 seconds to walk, and the crossing time is calculated based on the width of the road to cross. He explained the timing of the pedestrian signals and said the timing to cross is standard across the state. Laura said it may be specific intersections,but cars don't think they have to stop which causes her to have to rush sometimes and she's concerned about elderly and children. Bryan said they can add crossing time to the intersections and studies have been done about this process and the time being used seems to be appropriate. Bryan said complacency is a very bad thing when talking about all modes of transportation, and he doesn't want anyone to feel unsafe but not so comfortable that they stop in the middle of the roadway. Everyone needs to pay attention such as not looking at phones when crossing,being aware of their surroundings, and trying to make eye contact with each other. Laura feels like so many vehicles have tinted windows, you can't make eye contact. Bryan said he's very cautious when he can't see the driver. Matthew said he's been to other cities where they have pedestrian signals leading. Bryan said they have several locations where that is already in place. He told them some of the intersections where that is already happening if they'd like to experience it. Sarah asked about 1700 South and Soo East which is her neighborhood, if it's just the turn signal that is red for a while, or how it works. Bryan said it is the adjacent traffic signal that is red. He Page 2 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes explained how that worked and has also added a 3 second delay on all traffic signals throughout the city. Matthew asked if they are planning to expand the LPI to other intersections and Bryan said there are only a few locations he's hesitant to add them and explained why. Dede asked with signalization, if the long-term goal is to create a consistent, predictable schedule when it comes to signalization, so people know what to expect when they come to intersections. Bryan said they do have some of that already but there are a lot of UDOT roads that are much larger roads and carry a lot of traffic running through SLC. They work very well with UDOT and have in the past run the same cycle lengths as them, but with the last major re-timing,they went with a different method. What this does is gives them a lower cycle length on the city intersections which really serves all users better. There is less delay and less lost green time so it's a much more efficient operation of the signal. Martin said one of his big complaints is that UDOT is running full length signals and SLC is running shorter ones and on the state roads it takes a long time for people to cross those streets. He sees there are waves of traffic coming through and it really encourages jaywalking. He wonders what the chance of talking to UDOT about the timing of signals at these major roads is. Bryan said to synchronize a group of signals, they need to be running the same signal length or a 1/2 or 2/3 signals length and those are the main options for synchronization. To keep them synchronized,they must stay within that. He said if they think about it, UDOT roads have more movements, they're using all the left turns,have more lanes, and more traffic. To keep all of that together, it drives up the cycle length. Martin said all of this encourages long distance commuting vs local commuting. He said they want to be more supportive of people commuting longer distances on local streets not using a car rather than long distances on UDOT streets using a car,to encourage more local movements. Alla asked if,with his expertise,he could shed light on so many places around the world where the pedestrian button is not a button or not always a button, it's just synced with the traffic signal. In SLC a similar system had been implemented during the pandemic and she loved it as a pedestrian. The number of times moving along the new pedestrian cycling corridors she would arrive at the intersection a second too late to push the button. She was wondering if it is feasible to introduce an automatic pedestrian light at least at some intersections or if they've tried it and won't do it again. Bryan explained how this works and the delays at different intersections and that there is less delay at the intersections where there is a button that needs to be pushed. He said there is a lot of data for this and that everything is recorded to 1/10th of a second. He said anytime they get a complaint at a specific location,they look at that location to see if there is anything they can do better there. Martin feels the city isn't supportive of people walking when you have to push a button to cross the street. Bryan said a car does have to do that and Martin said no, it happens automatically for them. Bryan said if the timing of pedestrians were more predictable, some of the techniques tried would work better. Bryan said pushing the button is the pedestrian detection and it's the only reliable detection to cross the road. Bryan explained they don't want to hold up other traffic when there is no pedestrian or cyclist at the light. If they serve the time with every vehicle call, they'll be serving that time for no pedestrian, and it will slow traffic. Sarah said I see that it's more beneficial for the pedestrian to push the button,but it is the perception. Martin said that is correct, in a European city,there is no button to push. Is it psychologically or socially more supportive of walking. Why do they do it that why over there and not here. Bryan said the button is a tool that they can rely on for pedestrians. Steve said they don't want vehicle traffic backing up and waiting on no pedestrian traffic because then they'll start having people running lights or avoiding lighted intersections and going into residential area and going well beyond the 2omph to get to where they need to go. The signal people still need to keep that traffic moving and the pedestrian can disrupt that timing and get across the road. We already have people running the red lights, it would be worse. Sarah said she appreciates Martin's comments about how they work in other parts of the world and how pedestrians are Page 3 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes prioritized, and she would be really interested in understanding the benchmarking behind that. She wonders what other places are doing where they don't have the congestion problems and are able to manage traffic and prioritize signals. Like what are those techniques, is there opportunity in the future for SLC to start implementing different ways. Matthew said there are places where as soon as the pedestrian touches the button,the light changes. Bryan said the delay works both ways,it may work in your favor sometimes,but it's just as likely to not work in your favor and he explained the delays. Martin said it would be nice if the city did some kind of study with what they're doing now with the push button requirement and what happens if they don't. Bryan said the UDOT study does have that and as a pedestrian,he understands how they feel but he has a better understanding of how the intersection works and that it does not give you an advantage to not have to push the button. Sarah said she was biking the Jordan River Trail yesterday and there were crossings where you push the button to get across. There were a few times they pushed the button, and it seemed like an extended period of time they were waiting to cross. She's curious about the major bike trails and the prioritization at those crossings. Bryan said they've done a lot of work to give a lot of opportunities in the cycle for cyclists to cross. He said she got to the intersection at just the wrong time compared to another time she might have been there. Martin asked if they should be prioritizing people crossing on a trail rather than having cars going through. Bryan said it was a good question and there are a lot of different answers, one of which is the pollution problem. At times,that signal does run free and if there were no traffic you would get a crossing right away but if there were traffic in the vicinity, it would delay it until that traffic clears. If there is a lot of traffic, there is a maximum time it will wait for you. Where they have good detection,they have more options to make things more dynamic. Becka suggested Bryan go though the basics of detection especially from a bicycle perspective and she also wanted to suggest talking about shorter signal lengths and why that has been an advantage to all users including pedestrians. Bryan said their older detection is a loop in the ground and if you see that circle in the ground where it's been cut and filled with epoxy, as a cyclist your best bet is to put your crank over the largest part of metal on the bike right over the loop. As the metal passes through that inductive field, it changes the inductance on the other end and triggers the signal. If you have a location where it still doesn't pick you up or you still can't see the loop,let him know and they'll mark the loops and make sure they are still sensitive enough to pick up bicycles. They are replacing these as fast as we can. There is also video detection, and you can see the camera on the mast arm on a camera across the roadway. If they point their bicycle light at those, they'll be detected. There is also a radar which is good and easily able to detect where bicycles should be. One of the newer technologies is a dome camera and they're having good luck with those picking up bicycles. If you have a problem with detection, please get ahold of Transportation and they'll try to get it fixed. He said it's 20-3ok to have the loops changed out to other detection. They try to keep the cycle lengths short because everyone gets less delays. In SLC we are a grid and there is balanced traffic on a lot of the streets so there isn't really a predominant direction and equal timing of a cycle length, and a shorter cycle length works well. Alla asked if there were studies on signal timing and Martin asked if Bryan will send it out if he has them. Committee Process&Input Martin said this is about the two documents discussed at the last meeting. One is called Bob's Rules, and the other is called Public Welcome and Decorum. He modified them based on the BAC discussion and feels like they are up to date. Martin Cuma motioned to approve these documents with the changes; Matthew Morriss seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Page 4 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes Orphan Assets Letter Martin wrote a letter to request SLC administration continues working through the city departments in optimizing these assets and putting them into an asset management plan or program giving them a home and funding for the maintenance based on the Committee's discussion. Martin Cuma motioned to approve this letter so it can be sent out; Sarah Johnson seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. City Creek Martin said they had a discussion with TAB who reluctantly agreed to participate in the personal meeting rather than the letter. Martin set up a meeting with the Mayor's office and Laura Briefer, the Director of Public Utilities. This meeting is in mid-January and the TAB representative from the City Creek area will attend this meeting with Martin. The plan is to be more positive and say this didn't work out very well,we would like to encourage you to be more aware of Boards like us and hopefully create some sort of process within this city. That would enable SLC departments to know who they should go to when they are planning these big projects, and hopefully eliminate or reduce the amount of friction that can happen when the public gets faced with these big things that are a surprise. Dave Iltis said he hopes they can ask for a clear answer as to why they can't open the road to the top on weekends and holidays for cyclists and pedestrians as they've still not managed to say why. Committee Announcements&Updates Dave Iltis said one of the key things about pedestrian signals not changing automatically to walk is that if you do jaywalk and there is an accident,you as a pedestrian,the insurance company has leverage over you if you get hit regardless of what the driver happens to do. What happens if there is an accident and a pedestrian is hurt due to signal timing,the pedestrian not only gets hurt,but they may also not get compensation for physical injuries. Martin said this would be more of an argument to have green for the pedestrians all the time. He said they would like more information from the city proving it's beneficial to have buttons that they need to push. There was additional discussion about push buttons and signal timing in European cities.The Committee would like to have more information about this, and Matthew said he hadn't thought of the vehicles stopping more often affecting air quality. Alla is curious about the methodology and the studies referenced because she wonders if movement through intersections is only considered in one direction. Martin asked Becka to bring Bryan back to a future meeting or at least provide them with more information about the studies. Becka said they can invite Bryan back and she was interested to see that most of the discussion from BAC was from a pedestrian perspective. Martin said there is a very close connection between the bicycle and pedestrian timing. Becka said signal timing is kind of an ongoing discussion and she thinks this Committee has some things that are perpetual issues. She said it seems like they either need to change their expectations or the infrastructure needs to change but she has seen cities across the country put a lot of effort into this and things still haven't changed. There's always something that could be better. Martin said they need to make their voices heard so people at UDOT or the legislature hear them. Maybe things aren't as perfect as they think they are. Steve said generally SLC proper has a residential population of 20o,000 and a daytime population that can surge to 600,000, and they aren't all cycling,walking, or using public transportation. There's going to be other vehicles that are going to be involved as you manage expectations on what the city and state are going to be able to do on the roads for your safety. If everyone can get to where they want to go, they may not enjoy how they got there but they're getting there safely,that's the best outcome. Dave said the biggest overarching view of this is that the city must put pedestrians first,then cyclists,then micro-mobility followed by transit and Page 5 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes followed by delivery and then cars last. It's not an equal footing and that's where the philosophical change needs to happen. He said it would be great if the city could work out signal timing for bicycles and listed a few specific locations. And while SLC has improved, it's still absolutely i00% cars ist and pedestrians are maybe 3rd after transit and then bikes and somewhere in there is delivery. Cars are ist and that has not changed. Matthew said they would benefit from Bryan coming back and educating them more on the signal timing subject and Martin agreed. Becka said Bryan has been very supportive and a leader in adjusting detection to make sure that bikes can be detected. One of the challenges is that you're not sure you've been detected but he has been willing to try so many things. She's been asking for leading pedestrian intervals for years and now there are at some locations in the city because Bryan made that happen. His willingness to try different things makes her trust him when he says something is not the best choice for SLC. They can have Bryan come back and chat more and maybe it would be helpful to give him some guidance that they would like to talk about detection and crossing timing. Motion: Martin Cuma motioned to adjourn the meeting; Sarah seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 6:33 P.M. Meeting Chat from Ashley Lodmell to everyone: 5:04 PM I'm Ashley, district 4. I'm commuting on frontrunner so might be hard to hear! from Gray, Matthew Strategic Planner II to everyone: 5:07 PM I should add that I live in District 2, though I am representing iTTA on the TAB. from Sabula, Julianne to everyone: 5:25 PM It sounds like compliance is part of the issue. from Dave Iltis to everyone: 5:28 PM What about the bike signals on goo S? Can they be set so you don't always have to press the button? from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:30 PM No Pittsburgh lefts on Bryan's watch! from Ashley Lodmell to everyone: 5:30 PM I have noticed the pedestrian leading interval at a few spots and it is very nice for walking, but haven't noticed on my bike as I don't press the button as much and if there are no pedestrians the walk signal doesn't always turn from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:41 PM Bryan, I wonder if you could cover the basics of detection and what a green band is? from Roolf, Becka to everyone: 5:43 PM and also why we are running shorter signal cycles in general from Ben Trueman to everyone: 5:44 PM Page 6 of 7 BAC 12-18-2023 Minutes It is pretty painful to have to beg to cross the street, both on foot and on bike from Alla Chernenko to everyone: 5:52 PM Bryan, if there are data/ studies you could share with the group after the meeting, I would love to take a look from Alla Chernenko to everyone: 5:52 PM Studies about ped signal timing, I mean from Dave Iltis to everyone: 6:07 PM It would be great to actually get city creek open to the top in weekends. from Ben Trueman to everyone: 6:13 PM I think it really comes down to designing roads primarily for (and to prioritize) cars, vs designing roads for people Approved by the Bicycle Advisory Committee 02-12-24. 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