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01/08/2024 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE HYBRID MEETING HELD,JANUARY 8, 2024 G COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT . EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT Catherine Tucker, Committee Chair Laura Marshall, SLC Facilities John Kemp, Committee Vice Chair Josh Lander, SLC Facilities Barbara Murphy, Committee Member ! Consrruancv �s��ommitteC Sean Fyfe, SLC Engineering Anne Oliver, Committee Member = = Jaysen Oldroyd, SLC Attorney's Office Jennifer Hale, Committee Member ; j Travis Sheppard, Committee Member a,i,; M9. 02F Robyn Taylor-Granda, Committee Member COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT Kathy Davis, Committee Member Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by taking a role call as follows: Travis Sheppard, Committee Member;Jenny Hale, Committee Member; Catherine Tucker, Committee Chair; Laura Marshall, Salt Lake City Facilities;Josh Lander, Salt Lake City Facilities; Barbara Murphy, Committee Member; Anne Oliver, Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd, SLC Attorney's Office; Sean Fyfe, Salt Lake City Engineering;John Kemp, Committee Member and Robyn Taylor-Granda, Committee Member. Agenda Item 1: Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes Catherine gave everyone a moment to review the minutes then asked if anyone had any comments or if someone would like to motion to approve the minutes. Jenny Hale motioned to approve the minutes. Travis Sheppard Seconded the motion. The Committee unanimously voted to approve the minutes. Agenda Item 2: Review Proposed Location of Picture Rail for Mayoral Portraits Travis Sheppard provided a rudimentary sketch showing the location of the picture rail in the hallway outside of the mayor's office. Travis stated Catherine had asked me to verify or propose a height for the picture rail. He dug a little into picture rails and their proportion and they are based on classical proportions of a column and pedestal of either ionic or Tuscan. Richardsonian Romanesque is a bit of a mix of classical orders. This one that I have in the sketch is an ionic proportion but as you can see, I am proposing that it matches the same height of a typical classic picture rail where, which was the height of the cornice and frieze. I think it looks good in the space as far as the sketch goes proportionally with the openings and the wall. This is the height that I am proposing. I think it looks right and it also matches the classical order of proportions. So, it's 12 feet 6 inches from the floor to the picture rail. It is 2 feet 4 inches which is the actual height from the bottom of the cornice.The cornice is a little different in the hall because we don't have a true cornice, we have that chamfered ceiling that goes up. I am saying this because the top of the cornice equals where the chamfer bends. The rail is above those lights that are on the wall. Catherine asked by how much. Travis stated probably about 18 inches maybe 16 inches. So, the light will case a bit of a shadow above, but I think proportionally on the wall this is appropriate. Travis then asked any thoughts, concerns or questions. 1 Catherine said speaking in my role as a structural representative I have zero concerns. And as an architectural representative I concur.Travis said good. Catherine asked if anyone else had any concerns, in terms of the appropriacy or historical nature of the building, style, scale, etc.There was no response from any other committee members. Travis said I was in the Governor's office, and he has a similar picture rail they use with a simple hook which goes on it, like we had discussed in the previous meeting. It was interesting they only used 1 hook then the wire spade out.The wire was brass colored, and it was braided. It was very pretty and nice looking. I think we should consider what we use for the wire with something which is a little more decorative verse plain wire. Catherine then asked do they have this throughout the Capitol. Travis said they do have it in a couple of places at the Capitol, but it is not as decorative as what is in the Governor's office. Sean asked how far off the wall is the picture rail projected?Travis, I don't have the drawing of the picture rail itself, but it is not much. It is probably about an inch and a half, maybe an inch and three quarters. Catherine stated you should be able to find a section profile attached to previous email invitations. Sean said the reason I asked is there any concerns with the end wall conditions where it terminates? Travis stated no they should run right into or be captured into each of the pop outs for the openings. Catherine mentioned maybe the outside corner or mitered joints.Travis said I don't think we have any outside corner conditions. I think all of these will be captured within the walls. Sean stated and they will terminate at the Major's office and the Council office entries. Travis confirmed. He did say I think we will all need to look at all the details very closely if approved for funding since this is just a sketch and an idea. But everything I looked at says this is feasible and would work and I don't see that we couldn't work through any issues. Catherine asked what the next steps are, in terms of the involvement of this committee, in reviewing any remaining items. Do we need to review final approval for profiles and rail and hanging system. Travis said so the profile that I had in the drawings before match the profile that was in the Council room now.That is the profile I would propose, and I think we talked about getting an engineer involved. So, I think we just need to approve the project and then it goes to facilities or engineering. How do projects move forward? Catherine stated you have already been hired as the architect, but the procurement process of getting a contractor is this part of the rest of the project already. Travis said, it wouldn't be part of the seismic, but it would be part of our IDIQ project. We have an IDIQ contract. So, if everyone is comfortable with it, we can do this. Laura asked, so you would be getting the engineer involved. Sean said I don't recall if we have funding currently for the system. Was it the Arts Council that was paying for this, do you recall,funding that. Sean asked,Josh are you aware. Josh said that is something that I will check on. Sean stated that the next step here is that it needs to be funded.And then it becomes a project. Josh asked,when do you hope to do this do you have a timeline. Travis said not to my knowledge. Catherine stated as far as this committee, we have been looking at it for the historical nature of the building. I don't recall being involved in the procurement process or funding of it. She said that for this committee we don't need to be involved much further other than maybe to vote to approve the placement of the picture rail, the profiles and the hanging system that were presented previously. Or if it sounds from our discussion that we would want to have a final review packet to review when it gets more formalized. Travis said that is what I would propose that the committee should review the final construction documents. That we would vote now saying schematically, preliminary, pre-designed we are okay with the direction. And that we would officially approve the actual final construction documents at that time. Catherine, I think that seems reasonable does anyone have any discussion points or objection to that course of action. That we would be voting today to approve this in a schematic form with the condition that prior to final approval we will want to see a more formalized package of what is planned for construction. John stated that makes perfect sense. 2 Jenny asked, so the paintings are in storage. What will happen if funding isn't found. Is there an alternative, are the old hooks going to be used. Travis said yes, the old hooks are structurally fine. There is no issue with putting them back where they were.The current issue is when we get a new mayor there isn't any room where they are currently located. Jenny said, okay so adding another portrait. Travis said from what I understand that could happen about every four years. And therefore, this is the reasoning for a picture rail. Catherine said is there any more discussion on this or can I have a motion for a vote for approval on the preliminary schematic design of this. Barbara Murphy motioned to approve the preliminary schematic design of the picture rail. John Kemp Seconded the motion. Catherine asked all those in favor. Travis Sheppard stated he will officially abstain from the vote. All the other Committee members unanimously voted to pass the motion. Agenda Item 3: Earthquake Remediation Update Sean stated I don't remember what we discussed last month. But Phase 1 through 3 are essentially completed. We have 2 active Phases with one pending. Phase 4 is at the south end of the fourth floor. I call it the planning area and that phase is nearly completed we have punch list walk scheduled for Wednesday and the contractor has a little over a week to complete whatever punch list items arise from that walk. And the other active phase is Phase 5, which is the mayor's office, and that phase has plaster repair ongoing, and that phase is anticipated to be completed mid-February. I have February 13 as the date that I have currently.The pending phase, which is contingent upon Phase 4 completion, is Phase 6 which would be the North side of the Fourth floor. I call this area the CAN (Community and Neighborhoods). And that is scheduled to start January 22nd. We will be wrapping up Phase 4 very shortly and then right into Phase 6 which is the northern half of the fourth floor.Then the next phase is Phase 7 and that is the second level on the north end and that one is scheduled to start February 26th. We will hold some preliminary walks for that phase shortly.And then the overall schedule for the project is anticipated to be completed in late August. I believe if I remember correctly, knock on wood, we are still on schedule. Catherine asked if anyone else has any points of discussion on this, any questions, or concerns for Sean. There were no additional questions. Agenda Item 4: Review Revised Amended & Restated Policies and Procedures Catherine asked if Jaysen could give us an overview. I know it has been a little while, we've been re-visiting this issue for a little while of the Amended and Restated Policies and Procedures.Jaysen if you want to give us an introduction. Jaysen said I will be happy too. Essentially what we have done with this document, is we have taken a very old process that may or may not have been completed and we modernized and updated it to reflect the current practices of the city with regards to the policies and procedures for the committee. Part of that, we made sure that we had some language which addresses electronic meetings and how they work. Some of the other things that tied into that. One of the other things is there was a request to essential take what we had and do a redline version which showed the changes were included. We have got those in the email invite—Conservancy and Use Comparison Redline document. Which shows what the prior language was and then all the changes that were made. It was a pretty wholesale change, so the majority of the document is going to show deleted original language and completely new language that has been inserted.The same or similar topics are covered but they are covered in different orders and things like hybrid meetings and electronic meetings were not addressed previously and now those are addressed in the language detail. It also looks similar to most of the guidelines that are being applied to by other committees in the city. So, there is a higher degree of uniformity from what we had previously as well. 3 Catherine I will start off, in comparing the old version and the new version the piece I wanted to discuss is the original document there was the purpose which talked about the historic building, why it's important, it stated with every new administration we shouldn't be trying to change to a new interpretation of architectural history and it's not up to the new administration to change things. That these things need to be consistent to protect the history of the building and square. But I do understand that our committee is governed under perhaps a couple different documents. So perhaps those other defining documents may have it, but this is not in this new policies and procedures document.Jaysen if you could address that at all. Was there an intention behind the reason for removing it. Jaysen said not particularly, it's simply the fact that the more standardized versions do not really address a statement of intent. And it being fairly aspirational in nature it didn't seem like it would make a material change, but if that is something the Committee feels strongly about, I think we could add that in without any real issue. Travis felt that we should establish the historic significance of the building and should follow the design guidelines. One concern that I have is if we make that statement too rigid the building will become a museum and useless to the users. I would recommend if we put that in,that it can be changed, if necessary, based on the occupants' needs. Catherine said,the concern that I have is that this was a portion of the original document, and I know that some of us on this committee may not see eye to eye on things. We may have differences of opinion, similarly every mayoral administration that comes in may have a difference of an opinion on it.The question that I see is our function on this committee is to preserve the building. We need to come up with something indicating what future committee members are allowed to do and are not. Or does that have no place in these scoping documents?Jaysen, I think these are in section 3.0 guidelines that I was objecting to having been removed. But I am interested in everyone's opinion. Maybe it didn't belong in the document when it was put in, in the first place. But I think we need those guidelines.The question is how we make sure that the guidelines are upheld in the future. Barbara said if there is not a compelling reason to not include it then I think it is good to include it. But to the question of turning the building into a museum. I think the guidelines that we adopted last year that Anne and her group put together. Are really specific about which areas,which features, and which materials are really high priority or significant and which ones aren't. And I think that's really the overriding guidance that we go from committee member to committee member or from administration to administration. Jenny asked if our Design and Use guidelines were adopted by the mayor. Jaysen said if this document was run through the policy committee the mayor would adopt anything approved by them. But I am not sure if those were adopted. Sean said I don't think those were ever adopted as far as a master plan or anything of that nature. If I recall it was the committee that motioned to use the design & use guidelines to execute their duties as the committee or something like that. We could look at what the minutes were like back then, but I believe it was more of this committee adopting that document for their use in this meeting. And that was the extent of it. Anne thought we went to the planning commission or HPV, whatever they call it at Salt Lake City for review, didn't they. Sean said we did have them review them, but they were not adopted. Anne stated then I agree, if there is a way, we can refer to them in our document. If they were not formally adopted,then we can't reference them, so we are in kind of a pickle.Jenny said I don't know if that's the case. Jaysen said, my understanding is that most of these documents along this line are not formally adopted by the city,that there more run through this committee. I know that the committee roles are advisory to the mayor.And so, I don't know if any of those requirements and other things that were there are necessarily binding. If the Mayor were to take a very hard stand on something and say they'd like to do something different. I don't know if there's anything that would prevent the mayor from doing that, but they certainly could be acting against the advice of the council of this committee in doing so. Jenny said, so I recommend we swap out to use "the design and use guidelines" instead of the operations and maintenance manual.Travis mentioned the design and use guidelines are referenced in the operation and maintenance 4 manual. Jaysen said that's in B3 section is that where you are referring to.Jenny said yeah B3 and 4 both refer to the operation and maintenance manual. Jaysen okay sounds good, I have changed that to the design and use guidelines. Catherine asked, regarding our conversation about our ability to preserve the building, if the mayor or mayoral administration in the future might not want to. Is that pretty typical in city governments. That the mayor is going to be able to override this and do something even though their only mayor for what 4 years that could permanently impact the historical structure.And do we have any recourse to change that.Jenny said it is my understanding historically from stories in the past,that's how it goes. Like the green bikes program, one mayor decided to override us and they were put on the campus and then they were removed by the next mayor. Sean said I do remember that,yeah. Jaysen mentioned, that was the example which came most to my mind,yes.Jenny said, even though we recommended that they should not be put on the campus. So that's kind of how it goes. Catherine asked Jaysen if it's possible for you as the acting attorney,to help us understand if there is anything we should be doing differently to increase the actual ability of these design guidelines to be followed by all administration. Is there anything, it's not that we want to overreach our power, we simply want to preserve the building. Without having a lot of activisms around the building itself. Jaysen said I am not sure exactly where the line or limits could be.There is a section which deals with the conservancy and use committee being in the city code.That would probably be the best place to look at making changes.That may increase the permanence or the weight the authority provided there. We do have committees that have a role other than advisory in the city. I know the Conservancy and Use Committee is in an advisory capacity.Travis said under the purview of the mayor. Catherine said,just to wrap up this conversation, from my perspective helping us understand as a future agenda item what would it look like for us to change our advisor role and or increase the strength of our advisor role in that descriptor. Travis asked,you mean in purpose. Jenny said, is it necessary? Catherine says only until it is necessary. But probably not. Jenny says but historically in the 50 years since it was remodeled in the 80's. That's the only story I have heard of. I don't know, does it work okay as it is?Travis said as I know of the design and use guidelines there's enough flexibility that when modification must be made there's enough direction on how it should be done. I agree with Catherine that I think we should tie the guidelines to our purpose. Catherine said to a separate issue have these been formally adopted and what is that process. Do we need to do some form of process to be able to actually have these design and use guidelines be enforceable. Does that make sense Jaysen. Jaysen said I guess it depends on what enforceable means. Are you talking about using the design and use guidelines, as being binding upon the city as a whole or as the decision of this committee? Catherine said I'm saying we want to be clear so we at least all understand the level to which they are binding for both the city and this committee. And right now,there seems to be some confusion. Sean said the intention of those was always to be the guide for the committee. And it was not as policy for the city, I guess. It really was a tool for the committee because prior to those there was nothing really to guide a lot of the decisions that would come across,the committee's desk. And so, Rob initiated the effort to create this and get it funded. Jenny said, "I think we sent a letter to the mayor's office telling them this is what we are doing. We put a lot of effort into these guidelines, and this is what we are going to use as a guide and hope you will too. Sean said yes, I think you did. Barbara said that's my understanding as well it was for the committee, but we informed the mayor this is what we are planning to use.And when people in the city have come to us with a proposal, I think we have referred them to the design and use guidelines so they would know where we are coming from. And what they could expect. I'm not sure we are going to be able to do more than just advise the mayor. I think that is a bigger issue. Jenny said I only brought that up because I wasn't sure it had to be that way to be switched out. If it doesn't then I think we should switch it out in this document that we are reviewing. Travis and Barbara agreed. 5 Jaysen said I think you can go with that. I don't think it needs to.There are no other preliminary steps that would need to be taken before we switch out that reference. Catherine said how do committee members feel if that is switched out do we need to use an addition, any other language which was in there previously on the previous version under 3.0 guidelines and furthermore it seems the wording looks slightly different in the very first paragraph 1.A. Do we need any conversation about those for Paragraph 1.A purpose or 3.0 guidelines because those have been changed in this newer version?Travis said I don't think we should go back to a previous version everything that is said here is actually better using the design and use guidelines. So, I think a simple reference to the guidelines. Jaysen so what I have done given the feedback that I have made a change in B3 and B4. So that the sentence B3 that was in question will now read "the committee shall consider the policies and conservation standards established in the city and county design and use guidelines, however,for good cause stated in writing the committee may submit recommendations contrary to such policies and standards".And now in B4 it reads "Review and advise the mayor regarding the following:the effectiveness and proposed revisions to the city and county building design and use guidelines. And the rest of this section reads the same as it did previously. Does that sound right?Travis and Jenny,yes right.Jaysen said, okay thank you. Jenny said I have a couple miss spellings. In section 2 sub section A on the section line, it says will be "help" and it should be "held".Jaysen said section 2A frequency of meetings line 2A okay thank you. Got it.Jenny said and in the 4th line in that paragraph it says "sites" and it should be "site".Jaysen said, okay thank you.Jenny said that is all I had. Catherine asked does anyone recalled it, I think in the older version, it said the committee would do an annual top to bottom walk of the building. But I did not find the new version but again maybe I missed it.Jenny said I think it was removed. Jaysen said it was likely removed more in the interest of standardizing what we have. Rather to any intention that there not be an annual walk through preformed. I think the walk through can be performed but it doesn't specify. Catherine said does anyone have any objections to us kind of having a laisse fare manner going ahead and doing that annual walk through. But we are not necessarily bound to it. Jenny mentioned the trick is to make sure we remember. Catherine said so for that reason is it better to have it in this document because it would give Laura or whomever is in Laura's position a place to say hey guys,we haven't done this yet.The other piece that might be helpful is to do some sort of committee-wide education and review of the design and use guidelines periodically as we are get changeover with new committee members as well. And it may be good to do that maybe once a year or periodically when we get new committee members like right now. Travis said that could be something proposed by you in our meeting like for this month we are going to have a review of the guidelines.Jenny said I think the thing we struggle with is institutional memory, if we are taking it out of here how we will keep it in people's memory. Catherine said exactly. I wouldn't have known about it except that I read it.Jenny said I have been on a couple terms, but we haven't done them for a few years so that could be easily forgotten. Catherine stated, who thinks we should have the regular walk throughs and or the reviews of the design and use guidelines written into the policies and procedures for the committee.Jaysen is reason as you mentioned standardization but is there not a reason to put it in here. Otherwise, we are in danger of losing that institutional memory. Jaysen that primary reason not to include specific requirements like that is the fact that if they are not followed then we are not in compliance or we are not following the guidelines.And so, if we have very specific requirements in the guidelines and we are not complying with those then at the very least we're not following what we say we are going to do. I don't know exactly what the penalty would be and there probably isn't any real penalty, but it certainly lessens the effectiveness of the guidelines if the committee is not following them. In violation of it.That would be my one caution is if something is put in we don't want to put things in and then not follow them. Catherine said my rebuttal to that is,that I trust you to be creative in your wording to allow us to say at our election or at our discretion use the word like regular or periodic,things which means it could be once every 100 years or could be once every 100 days. We're not saying how frequently. 6 Jaysen yes certainly it is possible to put something that's aspirational in nature but doesn't have any actual teeth to it. Catherine mentioned unless back to the same issue is that already indicated in the design and use guidelines. Because if we already mention it in the design and use guidelines then maybe that's our way of remembering to do it.Travis said I don't remember reading that. Catherine said but of course if we never tell ourselves to review those then we're not going to even know that it is in there. Travis said I agree with Jaysen, that I don't think we should pin them to the committee document, but it should be you Catherine,your proposal to say hey I think we should do this as part of my committee that I oversee. I think we should do this twice a year. Catherine said sure. Catherine said I do not want to amend the design and use guidelines you know. We could maybe create a new document which we will give to our new committee members. Here is our cheat sheet. We could do that but that is a whole process. So rather than creating a new document. Jaysen is it possible for us to even put one or two sentences in the policies and procedures just so we can get that historical memory that these are important things to kind of the core of the committee that need to be done regularly. Jaysen said I think it could certainly be possible. I am just looking through to see if I can find something that would be a good spot. For instance, frequency of meeting or for regular meetings twice a year. We do have site visits for renovations and remodels shall be conducted by the committee members during regularly scheduled meetings. I could tweak that just a little bit. If you wanted, we could say site visits to inspect contemplated remodels to be conducted during regular conducted meetings it could say"the committee anticipates conducting periodic site visits intended to is it to review the entire building". What's the goal we are trying to accomplish there?Jenny said yeah,the entire building and grounds. Jaysen said, okay how about the committee anticipates doing site visits reviewing the building as a whole and the surrounding grounds. Catherine said however you refer to the square and other portions of this. What we refer to frequently.You could just say Washington Square. You could just use the building and the square.Jaysen says, the building in its entirety and the square.Jenny says, or the building and square in its entirety. Jaysen says,the building and square in its entirety. Okay. So, I am now in 2A and the sentence that deals with site visits we start there "Site visits to inspect the contemplated renovations/remodels shall be conducted by the Committee members during regularly scheduled meetings at which such items which are discussed or considered, or at another time as specified by the committee. The committee anticipates doing periodic site visits reviewing the building and square in its entirety. "Then meetings shall be conducted in accordance with the operating procedures specified herein and any other applicable law". Okay does sound right. Catherine asked, okay how do others feel I want to make sure we have reached a consensus. Do others want to put an additional sentence in about similarly periodic review of the design and use guidelines. Something simple or is that too heavy handed. Travis stated no that is actually already written in the guidelines it states, "This study is a snapshot in time from 2019 and is intended to be revisited and adjusted when new demographic data and turn order administration change over time". Catherine said, and to that point any kind of master plan periodically updating, and I am not proposing we need to do that right now as it was recently done but that in the long-term periodic review is necessary. Travis said, and that is already built into the design and use guide. Catherine says, I am just saying do we need it in the scoping document.Jenny said I think we are okay. Barbara said, I think what we've got in the design guidelines is adequate. Catherine asked, does anyone have any comments, or questions for Jaysen. Jaysen, you don't need any vote from us today, is that correct. Once you get the finalized version in front of all of us, we can vote then. Unless anyone wants to expedite right now. Let's just postpone it until we have the actual final document reviewed for a vote. Jaysen said that makes sense to me. I've made those changes. I can include those in the next meeting and the next round and have the final version ready for consideration then. 7 Agenda Item 5: Committee to Discuss When to Hold Working Session on Committee Guidelines Catherine said we were going to discuss when to hold a working session to go over the design and use guidelines. We have quite a few new members including myself. And I want us to discuss when do we have time to be here for, I think the design and use guidelines working session could be another hybrid meeting. You know we could screen share the PDF. I think the separate one that I want to talk about is doing the site walk we could combine that with this agenda item 5.That would need to be an in-person meeting, pretty exclusively. What do you guys think. It's a time commitment. Jenny said, with the construction you may want to wait to do a complete review of the building. Catherine asked Sean, remind us when would be a good time or maybe Travis can tell us. When would be a good time. Are we looking at a few months?Travis said August is what they are hoping for. And right now, we are on schedule. Catherine asked, so maybe Laura can help us remember to revisit that in our July, August or September meeting sometime around then. It's good weather for it. Jenny said I think Anne would be a good person to do that. Anne said I think it would take too much time to do the site walk and the review at the same time. Maybe we could do the site walk first and maybe do the review in the next meeting in the interest of time. And I am happy to lead the discussion of the guidelines. Jenny asked, could it happen now or in the near future. Anne stated, I feel if they're done close together because not all committee members have seen the building It would be helpful. But anytime will work.Jenny mentioned that Anne's term with the committee with be expiring in April, so we need to consider this. Laura mentioned there are three additional members whose terms expire in July. Catherine said I think it would be good and important before we have more change with the committee to get that institutional knowledge kept and preserved so the whole function of this to be able to have that working session prior to that change over.Jenny said I think we will need to do a modified site walk of the building maybe not the parts under construction before Anne goes. Catherine said this is our January meeting. Is it possible to that we do one of them at the February meeting.And one of them in the March meeting understanding that our walk of the building would only be partial and would not be anticipating doing a real full walk but a follow up walk to kind of inform us and put examples in place as is illustrated in the design and use guides.Anne, what do you think. Anne said I think that would work if it fitted in our time frame. It would be great to pass this on before I go. And with all the new members coming in we could time it so that it happens.And I am happy to come back for a special meeting. It could be helpful to do after the new members in July, so we can catch more people. I'm totally flexible with this, whatever will work. Catherine said could we go ahead and do it now. Make sure we get all that knowledge kept and then invite former members to come revisit it with us in a future session as well. Sean asked, so there is a cycle of expirations in July. Catherine confirmed yes,April and July. Barbara said if Anne's willing to come back after April, I almost think it would be better if we did it after July when we've gotten the 4 new members. But I think the more you can have in the discussion of the guidelines the better. I mean my term ends in July and I am happy to come back and participate if that's useful, but I think I understand the guidelines. Whoever is taking my place will need that meeting more than I will. Catherine mentioned my 2 concerns are first the summer and people are on vacation and it is harder to catch people. And my second concern is trying to get attendance levels such that we are getting all the new members attending that need it. As well as getting the retired members to attend just out of their goodwill. I am a little worried that, if people don't attend then it's a useless meeting. It's really up to what the committee thinks by consensus. I am happy to do any of it. We can do kind of a high-level review and do it a couple times maybe. Travis thought the site walk would be better in August because of snow and construction. Now is not a great time to do it. Catherine said you're right it is not a great time, certainly. Anne said how about we do a quick overview for this group before I go and then this group can have that familiarity at least under their belts. And then see what you felt, get feedback on that, see what was useful and then you can then 8 explain it to the next group. And schedule that whenever you need to. Or I can come back at a future date and do it again. Catherine said that is great. How do people feel. How about if we did a review at our next meeting of the design and use guidelines that takes maybe 30 minutes to 45 minutes but no longer. We have a big table to set the PDF on and be able to review it on the screen and be able to review it on the table. I don't know. Be able to read through passages. Whatever the committee wants I am happy to help with. And then similarly at the following meeting we do a walk through that maybe takes an hour max. See whatever we can see, of course it will depend upon construction &weather. Anne, do you have any conflicts in February and March. Anne said let me look. I don't think that I do. Let me pull up my Calendar.The 121h of February looks fine.Then March 11th will be okay. February is probably better for me. Catherine without putting this up for a vote. Do we have any objections to this proposal.Travis said no objections. No one else commented. I think we do the workout session in February and then walk through in March. Laura, please put a heads up in All Caps in the invite encouraging people to attend in person if they can, especially for the March meeting, that would be great. Agenda Item 6: Other Building Proiect Updates Catherine asked do we have any other project updates.Travis asked what's the process is to propose a project. Sean said you would probably make a request with Riley or Josh, now representing Facilities,to submit the project through the city's CIP application process.That's probably the avenue you've got to take.That is how the design and use guidelines ended up being funded.There was a request, I think a formal request from this committee. I think the request went to the mayor but was delivered through Facilities. If that makes sense. You kind of work through Facilities to get a CIP application submitted and hopefully funded. Travis said so this is an aesthetic project I would propose to replace the wall scones. Sean said yeah you may want to add that as an agenda item for next meeting. You could try to propose what you want to do, and the committee could vote on whether they want to support it. And their support could get some momentum to get some funding. Travis asked if everyone is okay, I could put together some proposed fixtures to replace the ones that are there now.And then we will talk about it in our next meeting. He asked if the CIP process is not just for functional repairs or anything, it can be for aesthetics as well. Sean said yeah that's right its capital improvements is what it would be defined as. That seems like the right route to take. Anything above $50,000 is CIP. Travis said okay I will put something together. Catherine asked if there is there anything else anyone wants to discuss. Sean said for the next meeting we are hoping to have the drawings ready for the gates for the council workroom and formal chambers. And you may want to walk to those spaces to review the situation. We are shooting for that in February. Catherine said that is yet another reason for people to be able to come in person to the next meeting, it would be helpful for both February and March. Laura confirmed she would add these items to the agenda. Catherine asked are there any other discussion points or announcements. Otherwise, can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting. 9 Barbara Murphy motioned to adjourn the meeting. Travis Sheppard Seconded the motion. The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn. 10