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02/12/2024 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE HYBRID MEETING HELD, FEBRUARY 12,2024 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENTUMarchll,2024 EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT Catherine Tucker,Committee ChairLaura Marshall,SLC Facilities Kathy Davis,Committee Member mity liailbing Josh Lander,SLC Facilities Barbara Murphy,Committee Member Committee Sean Fyfe,SLC Engineering Anne Oliver,Committee MemberJaysen Oldroyd,SLC Attorney's Office Jennifer Hale,Committee Member ��Travis Sheppard,Committee Member Robyn Taylor-Granda,Committee Member024 COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT John Kemp,Committee Vice Chair Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by taking a role call as follows: Travis Sheppard,Committee Member;Jenny Hale,Committee Member;Catherine Tucker,Committee Chair;Laura Marshall,Salt Lake City Facilities;Josh Lander,Salt Lake City Facilities;Barbara Murphy,Committee Member,Anne Oliver,Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd,SLC Attorney's Office,Sean Fyfe,Salt Lake City Engineering;Kathy Davis,Committee Member and Robyn Taylor-Granda,Committee Member. Agenda Item 1:Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes Catherine gave everyone a moment to review last month's meeting minutes. Catherine asked if we could try not to have the meeting minutes be verbatim but try to condense the meeting minutes to summarize the important points discussed in the meeting. Then asked if anyone had any comments or if someone would like to motion to approve the minutes. Barbara Murphy requested that a sentence be corrected on page 5, 4th paragraph from the bottom,last sentence should read"I'm not sure we are going to be able to do more than advise the mayor.I think that is a bigger issue". Catherine asked does anyone have any other corrections or can I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes as corrected. Barbara Murphy motioned to approve the minutes as corrected. Anne Oliver Seconded the motion. The Committee unanimously voted to approve the minutes. Agenda Item 2: Review Proposal to Replace Wall Scones Travis mentioned in the last meeting he would like to see if we could look at replacing the wall scones in the City&County Building which were installed in the late 80's.He showed an image of the current wall scones in one of the halls of the building. Stating that the wall scones are a contemporary style not in keeping with the style and aesthetic of the building. The reason they were probably put in was to lighten the ceiling.He showed images of the hallway prior to the 80's where the ceiling was very dark.He noted that the chandeliers have quite a bit of up light but in general the area is kind of dark.He believed the reason why they added the scones was to brighten up the space.He did some research on the style of the chandelier and determined it is a cross between a Victorian and wellington style chandelier.With the uplighting to be much heavier than most Victorian gasoliers.He researched to see if he could find cost effective,off the shelf,wall scones that would fit into the style of the original fixtures. Looking at St.Louis Lighting and Rejuvenation Lighting which are 2 common companies who do this type of fixtures.And there was nothing off the shelf available.He then contacted Rambusch Lighting which has done some light fixtures at the Capitol. He had a meeting with Rick Edwin at Rambusch discussion the wall scones and lighting in general. The lighting currently in the City&County Building with the ceiling being brighter than the floor is not historically accurate.Typically,when it is a darker space,especially in public buildings,we would want to brighten and lighten up the space. He would like to propose a light fixture which is more historically accurate to replace the wall scones and possibly lower the fixture on the wall so these new fixtures could bring the light levels required to meet current building codes and bring a safer light level to the hallways.As the current scones are not doing anything to lighten the floor or useable spaces where the people are.He thought for sure this would need to be competitively bid out for a contract with several different companies for the light fixture. And if funding for an entire project isn't possible,we could contract with a company to do maybe one hallway or a portion of the building. Having the lighting contractor make the spinning's and casings for the lights so they could be readily available when funding is available in the future for additional hallways. 1 Anne asked what is driving this proposal in the first place.Travis explained that the scones are not in keeping with the historic aesthetics of the building being a contemporary light. And the lighting of the building is not historic either.Catherine mentioned the scones are lighting the area in a different way than,for instance,the room we are in.Which has can lights&which the lights in here are a non-item because they are not a statement piece&do not add any style to the space.The current wall scones are adding a 1980's style to the space.Anne asked,so this is for a purely aesthetic purpose.Do we have funding to do this?Travis explained we don't have current funding.This is just a proposal to see if there was any interest and if yes,he would then work on getting funding.Catherine added that there is a visibility issue,and it does not meet current codes. The committee members discussed several different lighting options and the cost of each option such as historical replicas of light fixtures,and possibly a linier picture rail type light with lights with up and down lighting features.As well as a can lighting fixture which is not possible because the ceiling is solid concrete. Travis then asked Sean what the process is for getting projects funded.Sean explained there are several different ways to get projects funded.But he felt he would have to get a lighting study done first before you could pursue replacing existing lights. He suggested your next step would be contacting Facilities to see if they could fund a light study and see what the results are in the building.And then once the light study is completed and if the lighting is low then the Facilities department could work on the light fixture change.He would recommend starting there.And recommend Travis work with Facilities to determine who to use for the lighting study. The committee mentioned there were many reasons such as ADA or current code issues for wanted to pursue the light study. Sean said you will want to come up with some good reasons why this administration would want to pursue it.And the more reason you have the better. Anne mentioned regarding the lights she would recommend looking at the Design and Use Guidelines which break it down into priorities.And wall scones are a non-historic feature.These are not great wall scones from the 1980's,but they disappear more than if you had a lighting fixture which would stick out from the wall.And it would add things that historically would never have been there.So,in preservation one of the guiding things is.If a new element is introduced if your goal is restoration,then restore it. But if we don't have anything to restore it to,then we let it fade into the background.Barbara agreed,one of the goals is not to create a false sense of history.Not leading people to believe that these reproductions were ever there.I'm sure there is a better light fixture than what these wall scones look like.But I don't think it needs to be something that looks like a historic light fixture.And it could save on costs and could achieve the goal of better lighting. The Committee members mentioned there are a lot of different options to consider adding more lighting.There are all a lot of tradeoff options but as soon as we introduce more lumens in space,we can be more secure in those areas.Travis said it looks like we have an uphill battle,but we are open to at least studying the lighting.The Committee members all agreed that the lighting study could be very beneficial. Travis asked Sean,would you recommend the light study for the whole building or if we don't have the funding only parts of the building. Sean said you would want to do the whole building. And for consulting procurements there are a few city codes on procurements.if the fee is under $20,000.00 you can just get a proposal from any consultant you want and then proceed with a contract.If it is over$20,000.00 but less than $75,000.00 then you need to have multiple proposals from at least 3 qualified consultants and then you can proceed with the lowest of the bids.If it's over that then we would issue what's called a RFQ(request for qualification)publicly advertised that.Those are the rules that we have to follow.We also have on-call consultants that we can use.GSBS is one of those.And so that's another route we could take if we needed to.But their limit is $75,000.00 for those on-call consultants. Catherine asked,how do you want to proceed forward with this.Travis said I will try to put something to gather and look for a proposal under the $20,000.00 for the light study.Catherine thanked Travis for all his hard work putting this together and the committee moved onto the next agenda item. Agenda Item 3:Earthquake Remediation Update Sean said,for the seismic project for the earthquake repairs.I would say generally the project is going really well.We are staying on task,and I think the occupants have been pretty cooperative.We have had some complaints with finalizing Phase 4.They were legitimate complaints,but we worked through those issues and in the end,I think the occupants are pleased.I think currently we are trying to wrap up Phase 5.Phase 5 is the mayor's office and obviously a very important phase for us.And we are working hard to make the move in transition,as smooth as it can be. Currently the office areas in Phase 5 are complete and Paulsen is working in the hallways.Paulsen's objective is to finish that phase by the end of February.And we will be working closely with the mayor's office team.As part of the move in,Josh is specifically involved with that,to make that move in as smooth as possible.Because if it isn't we are going to hear about it.So,we are wrapping up Phase 5 which is a good thing.Phase 6 is ongoing and started the 3rd week in January and is scheduled to be completed pretty much the last week of March.Phase 6 for reference is the north side of level 4 which has our Community and Neighborhoods department and I think Sustainability is also in that area.Phase 6 is currently on schedule,and they are currently working on plaster repairs in that area as well as painting.And then the next phase will be Phase 7 which will be starting upon completion of Phase 5.Phase 7 is the side of level 2 which I believe houses our finance folks.And that is going to start at the end of February essentially and go through May 3rd.And overall,the project is scheduled to finish August 20th. Sean asked if there were any questions from the committee on this? The Committee members said sounds like things are going well. Sean said we have a good team. Catherine said thank you Sean. Agenda Item 4:Review&Approval of Final Amended&Restated Policies and Procedures 2 Catherine asked Jaysen for this agenda item.You are hoping for us to have a vote to approve this document today. Jaysen confirmed yes,I am hoping we can go ahead with a vote and approve this one. I did notice one typo right up front.On the purpose line it should read the"City and County Conservancy and Use Committee"I think I've got"conversancy"which is incorrect.I think on everything else in the document I have incorporated all the changes requested from last time. I will make sure I correct that spelling change but that is what I am hoping for is approval. The committee members said there's a couple typo so I would do a word search&find using"conver"to find all the words which have this in the document and make sure they are correctly spelled as"Conservancy"because there are a couple different spellings in this document.Jaysen said he will make sure these are corrected in the whole document. The committee members asked is there any reason why we couldn't capitalize the"City and County Design and Use Guidelines"so it is identified as a document for them to look for. Jaysen confirmed we could do that.The committee members stated it's located in section B3 and B4 A of the document.And they would like to use the full book titled"Salt Lake City&County Building&Washington Square Design&Use Guidelines"and dated November 25,2020,as amended.Jaysen confirmed this has been corrected. Catherine asked for everyone to continue to review the document for any changes and any additional comments or changes.Recommending the rest of the committee might want to look at roman numeral 2A frequency of meetings as this had some changes,it reads the"The Committee anticipates conducting periodic site visits reviewing the Building and Square in its entirety".She felt this was a good compromise,it gives us a lot of flexibility but is a little more specific in what our intent is.Jaysen stated I believe those were the major changes.Most of the rest were just some proof-reading items. Jaysen shared the document with the changes on the big screen for the Committee members.If there are any additional changes while we are reviewing it on the screen.Catherine said so before I asked for a motion let's have a discussion,who feels there are any additional changes. Travis said Travis asked these policies and procedures reside in this committee only.They don't extend beyond or need to be approved by anyone else correct.They reside with this committee they don't need to go out for any other approval or review.This is just us clarifying to ourselves what we are doing,correct.Am I understanding that correctly. Jaysen said that is honestly a good question I am not entirely certain in regard to the policies and the conservation standards.The way it is written right now we would consider and use this,but you have the ability to submit a recommendation contrary to the policies and standards.You can propose revisions to those guidelines as well. I'm not certain historically as to how those were originally promulgated. It looks like they were last amended as of 2020,so that been relatively recent.Travis said that was the electronic&hybrid model that was proposed because of the pandemic. The committee members stated that's the original date. I think you need to say as possibly amended in the future or as potentially amended in the future.Jaysen said how about"as subsequently amended",maybe.The Committee said that's perfect,that's why you're a lawyer. And I will do the same thing down below.Jaysen typed this change in the document on the screen while the committee observed it. And we have checked the spelling,and we will trust you on the spelling of the conservancy in the document.Jaysen said he did seven different versions of incorrect spelling to make sure I did not miss any of the conservancy listed in the document. It should have caught everything in there. Catherine said is there any further discussion on the amended&restated city and county building conservancy and use committee policies and procedures.Or might I have a motion to adopt these as amended. Travis Sheppard said I move to adopt these as amended. Kathy Davis said I Seconded the motion. Catherine said all those in favor. The committee voted unanimously. Catherine declared these are adopted. Jaysen thanked the Committee members for their assistance in putting this together.Catherine said thank you for your hard work Jaysen. Catherine asked for a quick discussion with the group regarding the agenda items 5,6 and 7 remaining. I suggest rearranging the agenda a bit. Moving Anne Oliver's 2nd term expiration next and then the building project updates and then finishing with our working session agenda 5 last. I just wanted to be respectful to Jaysen to give him the option,so he does not need to stick around through everything.The Committee members felt this was fine. Agenda Item 5:Anne Oliver's 2nd term expiration April 2024&Potential Member Recruits Anne said I have been generating a list.She asked who do I represent and Laura confirmed the Utah Historical Society.Anne said good this is where all my names on the list come from.I'm on a national register review board committee for the state and I can send you the whole list of people if you like.Anne said,starting with Tom Burton. I also thought about Matt Wallace, I don't know how far he made it.Laura said he made it all the way through,so he's just waiting for an open seat.I asked him if he wanted to do this in the future and he said he would love to when there is an opening.Anne said he could be a candidate because Barbara's seat is opening in a month or two.And Matt is good Architect for construction of buildings and somebody with the dept and know about conservation which would also be good.So,we will go down the list and see.She asked what we thought about Don Hartley. Barbara said no because he has already done it for 2 terms. 3 Catherine asked if this would be for one of the other open seats in July so we can make sure we meet the parameters of each position.Barbara asked about her position and Laura said member at large,so that could be anyone.Catherine mentioned Matt could meet the member at large. Anne asked who I would send the list to&Laura confirmed it would be me. Additional names on the list are Caitlyn Barhorst former preservation planner with Park City with a preservation degree,and currently works for an architectural firm and has done many restorations of her own.Rachel Wilson who worked for the Forestry Service and has volunteered for everything and she's retired. Barbara asked,does she live in Salt Lake and Anne stated she lives in Ogden.The committee members confirmed the candidate would have to live in Salt Lake City unless their professional office is in Salt Lake City. Then there is Amber Anderson who works at SHPO,State Historic Preservation,could she be a candidate. Catherine said I assume yes.Travis asked if that would be a conflict of interest.Catherine said if they are working out of Salt Lake at SHPO or live in Salt Lake that would be okay. Then David Richardson is always good because he has done this many times before.Charles Shepherd as well. Catherine said I have worked with both Matt Wallace and Charles Shepherd as Architects,but have they done any preservation work.Travis said he has done a lot of work up at the University of Utah. Anne said Charles is half retired.Catherine asked but could he count as being part of the Historical Society seat.Anne said absolutely. Laura clarified that the representative for the Utah Historical Society could be whoever is their nominee. If they are okay with the nominee,then we will review and submit it and then go from there.Catherine said we have another person Karen Ferguson who has worked on many historical structures,and she would be great. But could she be a nominee for SHPO or another open seat. She was previously contacted for an alternative candidate but because she wasn't a licensed architect,she was unable to fill the Architect seat.Barbara said I don't know the 2 people you have already reached out to but they both sound excellent.Catherine said Karen Ferguson has done many different projects but mainly at the Utah State Capitol and is a dedicated architectural technician and worked on a lot of historical buildings.Jenny said she has presented at this committee for projects.You probably know her.Travis said she is fantastic.Catherine said Karen would be great,she is very involved in the community,and Matt know from working with him professionally but just not familiar with his historic work. Anne said I know his work as we have worked on several projects,and I know he knows more than he thinks he does.But he doesn't have that preservation degree.He did do a preservation field school and has preservation workshops I think in his background.He did that up in Jackson Hole. But it could be that we might want to reach back out to Karen and Matt because we had reached out to them already.Just a thought. Anne said I don't know what the procedure is.I never corresponded with the Historical Society,they never recruited me as their delegate,I don't believe.I don't know if we should contact them. Barbara says it is a little awkward because the legislators separated SHPO from the Historical Society.They are now stand alone&independent.And you would want somebody from SHPO State Historic Preservation office as opposed to the Historical Society who are basically doing museums and Utah Quarterly Histories.SHPO and the Utah Historical Society are two equity independent organizations. Anne said so to get to the qualifications needed for this building we should get in touch with SHPO more than the Historical Society. Barbara said Chris Merrit is the head of SHPO,he is the State Historic Preservation officer,and he is who I would contact.Anne said I can reach out to Chris to see if he has any recommendation.Catherine said and you can go ahead and forward whomever you want to recommend as well. Laura confirmed three people,Jenny-licensed landscape architect, Barbara and John Kemp are members at large,with their terms all expiring in July have with serving 2 terms already.Jenny said John serves us in the construction role.And we will need a nominee for a licensed landscape architect to replace Jenny.Jenny said I will reach out and see if there is interest first. Catherine said that is why we wanted to get started. Catherine said so in terms of concluding this agenda item.The various committee members who are very near their terms before expiring will reach out to their various individual contacts.Then let Laura know and she can copy me if needed.Barbara asked if Catherine would reach out to Karen for my seat sense,I do not know her.Catherine said I would love to reach out to her. Barbara said I would appreciate it. Barbara said just as I side note, I don't know what it takes to amend the ordinance because it says Historical Society and that no longer makes sense it should be SHPO.Jenny concurred it needs to be fixed.Catherine said we just had to update this also when we did Robyn's appointment because that office had changed names as well. We should update our ordinance.Catherine asked Laura could you please add for our next meeting an agenda item to have Jaysen do an Ordinance review for the qualifications representative's names and have it updated as needed.Jenny said I think it is a harder process.Barbara said maybe it's just changing the name to say representative instead of Utah Historical Society to State Historic Preservation Office. Anne said I'm going to reach out to Chris Merrit at SHPO to see if he has any recommendations.And will let you know. Agenda Item 6:Other Building Project Updates Catherine asked if there were any other building projects to discuss. Sean and Josh both said they didn't know of any. Catherine asked before moving into the committee working session, I want to discuss with you about our site walk and looking at the facilities and the grounds,as I understood possible at our next meeting.But perhaps we will do it pending the weather.My thoughts were to do it while we have our current membership so we can get that input&that knowledge transfer prior to people leaving the committee. Does anybody have any comments on it or concerns. 4 Jenny said in the past we have separated them because of the amount of area.Catherine said okay,maybe will do one of the two next time.Of course,the weather might help us make that determine of which one. Jenny said I think the building would probably be best,if it's possible with the construction. Because it's probably the one we haven't done in the longest. Travis asked when the last time was you did the site walk.Barbara said before COVID wasn't it.Jenny said no I think it might have been 2020. 1 remember getting the design and use guidelines.We could have done one after that. But I know the building walk has been a long time.Catherine said this plan would be to have it next time,walking the building and then we can have Travis talk with Paulsen to ask for their blessing. And then maybe get facilities on board and make sure we have keys for anything we want to get into. Jenny said in the past we've gone down into the basement to the isolators and then all the way up to the top which I don't think I would want to do again.Josh said with it snowing no you do not want to go up to the top.Jenny said once is enough for me. Catherine said, well here's another thought. Jerry Johnson,whose seat I filled on this committee certainly is very familiar with the building.And gives tours regularly for his classes.I could invite him to come along. I think we could all learn a lot.Jenny said I agree. Catherine stated he is one of the engineers who designed the seismic isolators under the building.And I would be happy to reach out to him.Barbara said that would be fine.Jenny said I think it helps to know what we're dealing with. Josh said I do know there are 2 items which are strongly coming up on next month's agenda which might take up a lot of time. Catherine said okay, so we could push it to the following month then.Josh said that is kind of what I was suggesting. Next meeting we prefer everyone be present for. Catherine said I am going to reach out to Jerry Johnson and see if he can give us,facilitate a walk through and info.Laura confirmed so we want to move it to April.Catherine said yeah if we think the agenda is too crowded. Do you think with the crowded agenda,do you think we could do the grounds walk.Cause I think that would take less time. Josh said I think we will be going to the Chambers,and it is going to be a long discussion. Sean said I believe next month is the plan is to talk about installing the gates in the council which is kind of a project.And it was presented to the committee previously.But we have more to show.Josh said I think it was first presented in September.Now we have a very strong working document on it.And a design. Catherine said then maybe our grounds walk we can anticipate doing in May.Josh said yeah it would be better weather. Barbara said it would be lovely in May.Jenny said we might have to ask Urban Forestry what their schedule is. That might not be a good time.We usually do the ground walk in the fall for the committee.I think because it's a better time for them.Anne said yeah Tony from Urban Forestry comes and it is really a fun walk of the grounds. Catherine asked could you please connect Laura with Tony's contact information.Josh said yeah,Tony Gliot with Forestry Laura should be able to find it.Jenny said and I think there is someone from Parks as well come.Josh said Joseph from Parks as well. Laura said thanks and I will contact them.Catherine said it sounds like we need to put this out a couple months out so we can decide everything.Laura said we are going to move the walk of the building to April,okay. Catherine asked if there are any other items we need to discuss.Otherwise,we can excuse anyone who doesn't want to be here while we do our committee working session. Sean dropped off for the remainder of the meeting. Agenda Item 7:Committee Working Session—Review of the Design and Use Guidelines Catherine said so for everybody who is online if you want to open the document that Laura sent out of the Salt Lake City&County Building& Washington Square document that might help. Anne asked who was here when we produced this document and got a chance to review it then. Is it Barb,Jenny and me,correct.I think the most important thing to know is that these exist.And there is no way we can get through everything that's in here.I thought what we will do is just run through the major headers.Take a look at the table of contents so you understand what's here. I was reading it and it's very comprehensive.So, I've got it on the screen and it's a lot of work&I understand it's a voluntary committee and I know it is a lot to open these up and think about them each time that we meet.But I think it would be good to have the applicants pointed to these,so they have an opportunity to review them. Understanding that the city uses these more than this committee.Josh said I have used it a lot,honestly. I used them today to answer someone's question. Anne said yeah great,so the more that it is being reviewed and the city staff is using these,I think that is really key.So here is the table of contents.The major headers start with acknowledgements.I think that is helpful to understand why these were made and who was involved and that's just an important matter. And then the introduction I think this is really critical to read and be familiar with. It talks about the purpose of the guidelines and what's in them and how to use them.And then the role of the committee and how this integrates with different city departments. Then it gets into the guiding philosophy which Travis you were getting into,like these high-level historic preservation concepts that some of us went to school for,but not everybody.And a lot of people have learned it as part of their work but might not be familiar with the academic oversite of the National Park Service meetings.So that content is in there,that hopefully explains the why of this document.We didn't just invent this it's based on practices and standards comigrated as part of the park services'role of preservation. Catherine said so at some time does it define whether we are doing preservation or rehabilitation for the building.Anne said it's in section 2.2 we chose to say we don't intend to restore this building.We don't intend to reconstruct it unless the unthinkable happens and the base resolution doesn't work.Then we may have to start over.But we talk about the two,so it's mixed.On preservation especially on its public areas.And then some rehabilitation.So,there's lots of leeway for change and adapting to modern working conditions in lower priority spaces.The part I think is most interesting is the next chapter,Historical Overview.Because I like the fact that there is history and historic photos in there that help you get a 5 sense of what was here in the building.Travis said there's the photo I found,huh. Anne said yes,we tried to put in as many photos as we could find. Then is goes through changes in the 1900s which was so long ago,and then the ones in the 1980's. Putting it into context of the giant restoration that happened.And then into the 2000's.And then we can look at it in each chapter. Again,this is not just the building it's the grounds. Me and my staff did the building piece and then Mark Vlasic and Landmark Design did the landscape piece.The two pieces are all interwoven. I don't want to short step the grounds at all.And then we get into the character of the many features of the building and the grounds.As to what really has to be kept in order for everybody to understand the history of this place.And that doesn't mean everything,right. It just like what's most important.Is this okay now that we have gone through these first few sections.The Committee members said this is good. Because then we can get into the heart of it. Next is"Current Conditions and Use",so in that section we do that for the building and the grounds starting with the building exterior. Considering life safety,accessibility,etc.And then the building interior. So,what is here right now and then in that chapter defining what is historic and what is not.And to what extent do we know what has changed or what is there.So that people will have an understanding&don't have to go into the river to try and figure it out.Try to get everything written down for both the exterior&interior of the building and the grounds.And then the section that can be most important for the committee to use are the guidelines themselves which starts in chapter 6. Laura,can you find this chapter&scroll down until you get to the floor plans on page 45. The critical part of these plans is we divided these spaces into four levels of importance-red is super high importance,Priority A,because the public walks through there all the time.We have to keep those as in tack as best we can,&as historically accurate as we can. Because people see them every day,and it really defines the character of this building. I think next is yellow, Priority B,those are the spaces the public enters into but are mostly workspaces for employees to work in. So,preserve as much as you can there but less stringent.Then the green spaces,Priority C,and these are of low importance. Keep these rooms the same if you can but if you need to change them keep it inside the room if you can. And grey, Priority D,is of no importance.There is nothing historically significant left in those spaces for the most part.They might have some baseboards or something like that.So that's important to know.So,the second we see a project we need to look to see which priority it is A, B,C,or D so you could skip half the document if you just want to go to priority A if it's in the hallway.Priority B if it's in the office space.You just don't want to read the whole document each time.You can really just go right to that room and that priority.So,these maps are super critical. Travis said if only they had been available in the 80's. Especially when they chose the wall scones.Anne said just so you know there is a 19 volume how to take care of this building this is an improvement on that.There were 19 volumes on that.Jenny said that was the point of this document because that was an inaccessible document which was so oneriest.So that is why this document was made. And there is an Appendix to this document which has a bunch of volumes which goes along with this document. Travis said I think this is great I have read all the way through,and I am very impressed with how it turned out.Good work,very good work. Catherine quick question for example Priority C and D spaces we talked about not wanting to introduce an artificial sense of the historical.How are C and D spaces addressed in terms of that lens.And we want to do more of that kind of rehabilitation,bringing in more historical character to it.That would be like bringing in replicas of what might have been there in the past.What are we advised in this document to do if that happens. Anne said I do not think we address that specifically.Theres nothing in those areas that are historic.If it were to change use somehow or become a public space.Again,Barbara said a very important thing.You don't want to introduce a false sense of history.So,if it's a cool little room like the vaults,if it was there.And we had good documentation and for some reason the city decided to spend a lot of money to restore that so the public can look and experience what the vaults,where the city's banking,money storage,looked like back then. Then you could restore it if you had the correct documentation and the money and justification to do so.Absolutely yes,but that's a little bit out there because that probably would never happen. But there is certainly room for that.But in terms of making a room look historic for that purpose I think would be pretty strongly discouraged and think it's clear in here.Barbara asked,could you give an example of what one of these green rooms would have been.Jenny said a lot of them are restrooms.Catherine said like when we get up to level 5 that's an interesting one.Anne said on this level there is very little historic area. Like this room is yellow some of the conference rooms. We went through every room and sort of rated them.Travis said a lot of the spaces were remediated from the original plaster and chip board.Catherine asked Laura to go up to level 5 on the screen. I am just curious,for example where we have all this green area on level 5.We are not giving any instruction or advice in terms of pretty much anything. Anne said there is a little bit of advice. I think in those rooms we might retain some baseboards.Each room is referenced here to tell you exactly what is in it and current conditions.And then there are recommendations for those spaces.Named by room,so it is pretty clear in the tables. Barbara asked if there are baseboards and someone is coming in to remodel,if you can leave the baseboards that would be great.Anne said yes, don't go in and mess it up. But you can go ahead and paint the walls.You can go ahead and reconfigure the rooms. Barbara said so leave what is there if you can.Travis asked is there any consideration to put plaster back into a space if it were being remodeled.Wouldn't that be encouraged. Jenny said it would depend on the remodel.Anne said I think it would be awesome.These guidelines are pretty pragmatic. Preservation in general tends to be pragmatic.If you have money to do something to this building,spend it in the red areas making improvements rather than restoring the plaster. Travis said so if the lawyers want to reconfigure.Josh said they actually want to add a breakroom,with a sink,refrigerator,all that. In one of the green rooms.Travis said I would like to see us go back to the original plaster verses chipboard and things like that.Anne said you could but it's just a big building with a low budget.Josh said the room itself right now is kind of converted already.With drywall and weird lighting.Jenny said my point is,it's just not seen by the public.Anne said if money was unlimited absolutely. 6 Catherine said I am trying to understand these guidelines in the context of a limited budget for Salt Lake City.Which is hotly contested every year.A room which is not contributing to any kind of historic room.Are we okay with them changing out the entire non-structural wall to put in plumbing so they can have a new kitchen sink.To fit everything in there.Travis mentioned you are not losing anything.Josh said cause that's coming just to tell you now. At some point we will be presenting that.This is very helpful for me because everyone comes to me and says Josh I want to add this.I want to change this.Because I'm the front line so I always get this out and say what does this say. Anne said nobody argues when you have it in writing.Josh said I show them the guidelines this way I can give them an answer.Jenny said we say no often enough,but I can't even imagine this being an issue because this is an office building. Josh said yeah because people need break rooms.Anne said these should be living things which can be adapted to current use.And this is trying to walk that line.That's what preservation is.Travis said if not it will get torn down unless people can use it.Anne said absolutely so keep what you can otherwise don't worry about it. And you can do whatever you want in the grey areas.Jenny said it's kind of a way to pick your battles.Catherine said so another way of looking at this to be that historical preservation is less important for the lower important rooms where we can prioritize functionality modern conveniences ADA accessibility.Things that they need to keep the building open,alive and functioning for their use.Anne said on a parallel track the reasons they are grey isn't because no one goes in there,it's because they have been highly altered.Those 2 things work in tandem.Not always are both of those things true.There are very little left or small pieces anyway.Sometimes you get a highly intact space which you could push up the scale like for example the bank vault.Maybe gets a higher priority because there's good stuff left.So,it gets bumped up to probably a green or a yellow.Jenny and Barb both said where's the vault.We have never seen it.Can we see that in our tour.Is that in the basement? Josh said there's one on the second floor in finance. If were talking about the same one.Anne said yeah,I think there's only one,it's pretty cool.Another one is a breakroom now.Josh confirmed that's on the third floor.Converted to a kitchen.Anne said so current condition if you want to know what is there right now as a committee you can just read that section.You don't need to go on a tour every single time.Especially if you are joining remotely.Then really the heart of it the decision made in this committee,are in chapter 6. Barbara said I wish we could add more.It would be really good if we had the room number in some areas because things move around.We are trying to use this,it's the room number we need to refer to it.Anne said yes,then it's more like indexing the room by looking at the map,what room number and if it is a green area.Then go to the Priority B section. Add the room numbers are on there.Catherine said that would be good guidance for city folks to understand. But if we get requests or proposals be sure to attach a room number with it. Josh said I asked them to come. The best way for them is to present their ideas here. Barbara said but would be good ahead of time to have the room number so we can know what the priority is.Josh said so I tell people to send all the stuff to Laura to put on the agenda.Josh said have them gives us as much documentation they can provide-pictures,dimensions,colors,and the room number,etc.All that stuff.And then Laura will send that out.And for the meeting I want them to be here if they can. Anne said it also goes through the grounds as well as the building.And it gets really detailed about the priority spaces.It talks about a general approach so read that first because this cannot answer every question and was not intended to. If there's something not addressed here,you can use that general approach.And then it talks about floors and the various types,walls&trim,ceilings,windows,doors,lighting,furnishings,other features,mechanical,electrical,technology and life safety systems.That can all assist you.And then the last chapter 7 is signage and wayfinding. Which we put that in for the future,because we need better signage,more uniformity. So that somebody can figure that out in the future but in the meantime,here's a little bit of advice.Travis said I think that was one of Rob's ideas. Anne said yes,he wanted to carry that torch&move that forward.Jenny said that was inside signage.Travis said the look and having consistencies. Anne said and lastly there are 135 figures,intended to be very visually rich and a good documentation of what's here now.Then 30 years from now when someone forgets about this document you can see what it looked like back then. But also,to help everybody because you have this document which can give you a quick understanding of the building and what is there. It talks about the benches&grounds. It also talks about the events too. And there are guidelines on the landscaping ones as well. General approach. But there are limitations on the number and types of events you can have on the grounds.Josh said there are 3 grandfathered events-Pride,Arts and Living Traditions. Anne then there are permitted events held in the city.Anne said it goes talk about the lawns,hedges,etc.No more stalking allowed on the lawn.Theres good stuff talking about events and the grounds. I don't think we wrote much about the art display in the basement floor.And it talks about this being a living document so most of the chapters are static. Chapters 1 through 4 you're not going to need to make any changes.But every 10 to 15 years re-do chapter 5,current conditions perhaps or add an addendum to the report.And then if ideas change about preservation or other observations which may have changed since the remodel done in the 80's&90's. It's a living document.Keep a folder and stuff it in there.And then it can be amended in the future. Catherine said she was trying to think of some of the controversies we have seen as a committee in the short time of have been here. As a committee member lens and design and use guidelines.And there was the Black Lives Matter painting on the street that's obviously a cultural thing right. It's outside the building of course&is not historical but those are temporary right.And then the cafe and the use and weirdness of the cafe. And I am trying to figure out in the future what kind of items would we document or what interpretation would you guys lend to that. Barbara said I think the Black Lives Matter was onset but is not something historic but its temporary. I think that's just fine. From the being it was never meant to be permanent it was always temporary.As it wore out it would disappear.Travis said that was approved by the mayor right.But as far as concerns for historical preservation.A huge part of historic preservation is reversibility. Like if the mayor had said you can use spray paint and put it on the stone walls that is a no. But non-historic concrete sidewalk,with something temporary that could be spray washed off.Barbara said and it was 7 horizontal so you could not see it when you're looking at the building.Wasn't something you were seeing until you walked back to it.Catherine said I like looking at a building as living allowing the public to interact with the building in regard to current events.What's important to them. Not trying to change that.Travis said there is a section specific to lighting which is going back to our previous conversation which talks about priority A spaces which talks about chandeliers,globes,multi arm pedestal wall scones. Verses cans and linear fixtures and guidelines for treatment of various light fixtures.Anne said that is what I read to you earlier.Travis said I was surprised you didn't mention wall scones. Anne said they are non-historical. Travis said it said they are in priority A.Which page are you on Travis.Travis said page 113 on the PDF.Travis said was just reading the rest of it. Anne said regarding the lighting on page 113. Barbara asked what else do you ask about Catherine.Catherine said regarding the cafe obviously there are a lot of different uses for this space,but they had put that patio outside.For this space basically from a preservation point of view would be in the guidelines on page 105 6.1.2.6 talks about the cafe.Guidelines for future work on the exterior of the commercial lease space includes the following—exterior lighting awnings and other semipermanent fixtures for the commercial lease space should be freestanding.Avoid mounting lighting and awnings into the exterior masonry or mortar joints. Exterior patio furniture,including chairs,tables,umbrellas,etc.should be confined to the designated patio space,simple and unobtrusive in design,and generally compatible with furnishings elsewhere on the grounds.We don't get into cutting doors and walls and things like that.Probably up in the general approach.Like don't add any openings because there is already a door there.Again,that patio all the furniture should be unobtrusive, reversible&don't touch the building exterior.Travis said I would take exception to hanging stuff up over the generator's smokestacks.Josh said did someone do that.Travis said yes one of the previously leasers did that.Josh said like cafe lighting.Travis said yeah.Jenny said she did not come to our committee to ask at all.That was the issue.We did not have communication with her.Josh,are they going to have outdoor seating.I don't think they do that anymore.Jenny said no.Josh said I guess for security reasons.Anne not at all because of its an unsupervised entrance.Josh said yeah because of that side door.Catherine said that solved that problem.Josh said yeah that did. Laura said plus there will be the new transformer so there will be some construction going on.Josh said yeah sometime this summer. The bids have been approved and it's going through the review stage right now.They have confirmed who is going to do the work and bid thing is completed. Anne said is there anything you wanted detailed as you are looking through.Catherine said I have one off the wall question.We have had some peaceful protests here.Is that something anyone here has had to deal with in the committee.Travis said I remember there was some discussion about closing the horseshoe.Josh said yeah.Travis said Sean was talking about that.Josh said not closing it permanently but putting in a guard gate and an arm.Travis said limiting access.And raising security bollards for emergencies.Travis said is there any direction on this.Josh said they will be presenting this.That is coming as well.This is a security thing coming down from the mayor and the council want more security.Catherine said it is coming nationwide.Jenny said the State Capitol recently did a whole project.Josh said that is what they want here a whole force fortification here. Boulders,benches but make them look nice.Jenny but if you know anything.You know what they are doing.It may not be obvious to the lay person but to us we know what they are doing with an arm and those other things which are more obvious.Josh said that design will need to be ran by the committee. Travis said interestingly because that project has been tested twice now.There was a drunk driver who hit 2 of the benches.And a driver fell asleep and hit a couple boulders.The drunk driver was in a Tesla,and it actually shifted the benches.They are granite and he ended up moving those about 10 feet.And then the boulder,one of the large boulders and it was a little pickup truck hit it and it kind of rolled and it launched it about 10 feet in the air.When it hit the ground,it wasn't going anywhere.Jenny said made it over though. They are kind of short.Travis said There was a lot of discussion about do we do a tolerance around like they do for around federal buildings. Because a 30,000 lb.vehicle going 25 miles per hour can do a lot of damage.And they went around boulders and benches are fairly effective,but it is more of a visual barrier than anything else.Josh said I was shocked the boulders are not cemented in.They're just plopped down.Anne said yeah like a steel post. Josh said no nothing.Travis said yes you talked about both directions.And they went more for the visual deterrent as opposed to the other. Rather than a tested hardened system. Catherine said structurally on the highway they put in similar design they can move the barricades,but it is going to slow your vehicle down sufficiently. But you can move that barricade back so it can be used again.As opposed to having a cemented foundation placed underneath that barricade.You would have to structurally do a significant repair job to get it back. And from a crash test perspective the person in the car could get significantly injured.Where if the barricade is going to move with your vehicle and slow you down gradually,you are going to survive. Travis said when we were researching the plan in the studied the cherry tree path it was supposed to be a barrier.But with the protests getting larger they have moved the protests out to the perimeter.That's why they thought the park strip was better.And they called it flip the strip.Reducing people being on the lawn.Catherine said that is some interesting things,we may have to consider. Josh said that it is coming down,they have contracted, GSBS,to do a study on this. Anne said this job originally there wasn't funding when it was first started. It was originally tied to,before safety driver. It was creating more like a public park space and things like that.Talks of closing the horseshoe super limiting access and closing the road between here and library square.Josh said to some degree that is still that's the green loop and that maybe closed. It's in the addendum.Jenny said it was separate put in an addendum. It was just preliminary,and more full study with traffic needing to be studied. And more funding was needed before being done. Jenny said yeah budget needed. Anne said hopefully when I'm gone,and Barb is gone.All that institutional knowledge lives in that document. Now you guys are the carriers of that document.Hopefully it is self-explanatory then but at any time you can call.Barbara said at least you should still have our numbers. Barbara said, but this is super useful. And you have got a map with priority of the rooms and spaces.Anne said and within each space.With lots of photos. Anne said Catherine there is a definition of why something got designated by room and importance of preservation and the priority. Barbara said I think 8 it could do nice if they had a hard copy. Laura said,however,the city is trying to keep costs down.Which is why we send them digitally. Josh said they are also on the intranet for the city. Catherine asked does anyone have any other announcements or questions or comments before we adjourn.So may I have a motion to adjourn the meeting. Anne Oliver motioned to adjourn the meeting. Barbara Murphy Seconded the motion. The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn. 9