03/11/2024 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES
SALT LAKE CITYAND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCYAND USE COMMITTEE
HYBRID MEETING HELD,MARCH 11,2024
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENTUk ,
EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT
Catherine Tucker,Committee ChairLaura Marshall,SLC Facilities
John Kemp,Committee Vice Chair ou»ty 31;uilbing Josh Lander,SLC Facilities
Barbara Murphy,Committee Member ge Committee Sean Fyfe,SLC Engineering
Jennifer Hale,Committee MemberJaysen Oldroyd,SLC Attorney's Office
Kathy Davis,Committee Member
�3��Travis Sheppard,Committee Member
Robyn Taylor-Granda,Committee Member 24COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT
Anne Oliver,Committee Member
Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by taking a role call as follows: Laura Marshall,
Salt Lake City Facilities,Josh Lander,Salt Lake City Facilities,Barbara Murphy,Committee Member,John Kemp,Committee Vice Chair;Nathan Kobs,
Director of Safety&Security;Sean Fyfe,Salt Lake City Engineering;Jenny Hale,Committee Member;Travis Sheppard,Committee Member;Catherine
Tucker,Committee Chair; Mya Ellis,Capital Asset Manager; Kathy Davis,Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd,SLC Attorney's Office;and Robyn Taylor-
Granda,Committee Member; Michaela Oktay,Planning Division;and David Schupick,Planning Division.
Agenda Item 1:Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes
Catherine gave everyone a moment to review last month's meeting minutes. Then asked if anyone had any comments or if someone would like to
motion to approve the minutes. Barbara Murphy requested that a name be corrected on page 3, agenda item 5 bottom of the first paragraph, last
sentence the guy's name is Don Hartley verses Don Heartland.Barbara spelled his last name as Hartley.Laura stated okay I will make this correction.
Catherine asked if there were any other corrections.Can I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes as corrected if everyone is finished with their
review.
Barbara Murphy motioned to approve the meeting minutes from February 12,2024,as corrected.
Travis Sheppard Seconded the motion.
The Committee unanimously voted to approve the minutes as corrected.
Agenda Item 2: Earthquake Remediation Update
Sean said for the seismic project of the earthquake repairs we have essentially wrapped up Phase 5 which was the mayor's office.There is just a little
bit of work left in the hallway,but it is essentially finished.And we are halfway through all the phases.So,we have five more phases to go.Phase 6 is
also nearly complete with completion around the end of the month.Phase 6 is on the north side of the 41h floor and the furniture is being installed as
we speak.So that phase is progressing well. And the seismic project is progressing well.Hopefully we can keep the precedent going there.
Phase 7 is the northside of the 2nd floor and that is just getting underway. They have moved the furniture out and they are starting their assessment
and some repairs on that level.Phase 7 is estimated to be completed May 3rd.Phase 8 is the south side of the 2nd floor and that is scheduled to start
after Phase 6 is completed,so the end of March.And Phase 9 is starting basically after Phase 7 in early May.Phase 9 is the south side of the 1st floor.
And then we will have just one more phase after that.The committee members told Sean,good job.Sean said Paulsen Construction has been great.
And the whole team has been great.Travis has been a great representative for the committee,and we have really appreciated him.
Sean mentioned we do want to add an agenda item though to the next month's agenda.We want to bring to the committee for consideration
samples of glass globes for the chandelier light fixtures.Unfortunately,a few of those globes were broken during the repairs,So,we need to replace
some of the globes and need to have a larger conversation with the committee about how we want to go about those replacements.There are just a
couple options to review.We will have samples too.But I would like it to be added so we can review it. Laura confirmed she would add this to the
agenda.
It was asked when the seismic project is scheduled to be completed.Sean said August sometime,I don't remember the date. Travis stated I can look
it up.Sean explained it will be a great accomplishment keeping the building open and finishing all these repairs.
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Catherine had a question regarding the main entrance right now is closed,how long will that remain closed. Sean said I don't recall.But it is part of
Phase 7 so that is around early May. Sean said as you are now aware,we all must enter now through the ADA entrance.I think the main doors may
be done a little earlier than May if I remember correctly. Catherine said okay,I was just generally curious.
Robyn asked a question about getting into the building and such.Preservation Utah is the only touring group who can give tours here.We had a tour
scheduled today for 66 students when our volunteer showed up,they were told that the building would not be available for access.Josh asked,do
you know who told them that.Robyn said our volunteer coordinator was going to send her the name of their contact.Josh said they should have
contacted me.
Sean asked,did they turn them away? Robyn said they did get in the building,but they were not able to access the basement or the tower. Liz at
Preservation Utah has the schedule but did not know that those 2 areas were not accessible.Liz's contact was Robert Schubach. Sean said he is the
project manager for Paulsen Construction,but he isn't the person who coordinates tours. Robyn said yeah,but that was extremely disappointing for
our students,&it made us look really bad.
Sean asked if you could let me know who you coordinate those tours with from the city. So,I can contact them.The project probably will be over by
the time you have your next tour. Robyn's volunteer texted her and said it was the security guards who told them that the building could not be
accessed when they came in the building.Robyn will get more information from her volunteer when she gets back in the office and will coordinate
with Nathan Kobs.Sean said I am so sorry about that.That is disappointing because those areas are accessible. Robyn said it has not been a problem
until today. So,I will have Liz coordinate with you&Nate.Sean asked if she could contact him when her next tour is so he can let people know during
the remediation.
Agenda Item 3:Review for Approval of New Blind Replacement in the Planning Division Rooms 406&435
Michaela said we are happy to be here at the Conservancy meeting and to talk a little bit about our proposal.We understand there have been some
proposals for window blinds in the past that have been denied by the committee. We have a number of planners between the two rooms 406 and
435.It is getting hotter in these rooms and our blinds are old.Laura passed out the photos provided to the committee members for review. Michaela
stated as you can see these are just standard aluminum blinds maybe original from 1989. We understand there have been other blinds proposals and
we're not privy to all the other blind proposals that have been proposed to the committee. We know that 406&435 are Priority B space,and the
design guidelines talk about if existing window treatments are replaced,new window treatments need to be uniform and consistent.Simple in design,
a neutral color applied in a uniform manner.We are on the 4th floor,and we are really looking for some thermal relief on the 4th floor.But also,there
are a lot of folks that work late into the evening.And to get some light in,maybe having blinds which you could pull down from the top to let in a little
bit of lighting but not have to open a higher amount of window space to let the sunshine in.
David has a presentation to go through and we really want to hear your thoughts to get some guidance.Dave shows the 15t slide which talks about
uniformity and energy efficiency.We talk about energy efficiency in the preservation program and the cellular shades from green lab studies show
that cellular is more energy efficient than obviously we have currently.The next slide reflects the current windows&blinds which are on the
handouts given to the committee members.The next slide shows the blinds that would be put in,which are the examples on the left,these are
honeycomb blinds with the aluminum inside This side by side shows the difference between the honeycomb and the standard aluminum blinds.As
you can see,they are very similar in color,but it does provide a lot better light reduction when closed.Compared to the current blinds on the right of
the slide.Last slide is the quote with this company,which was just to get a logistics cost amount for possibly doing this in the future. So that is the
end of the slides.
Micheala said of course this is just a proposal and we would not do anything without your blessing or thoughts on the matter. Knowing that other
folks have presented proposed blinds previously.So that is pretty much the end of our presentation.We don't have the actual dimensions of every
window,apparently the company we got a bid from won't give that to us. Probably to prevent us shopping around.David said we did work with the
engineering dept.,but they also said they were not able to find either virtual or physical records of the window dimensions for the city and county
building.Michaela said the blinds would not be covering up any wood or any window trim,it would be inside in a similar manner to what we have at
the moments with the aluminum blinds.
The committee members commented that we need to look at the design guidelines and be respectful of what they're asking us to do.I think doing
them as an instep and not affecting any of the wood trim around the outside is the right option. I think from the perspective of picking one blind
manufacturer may not be in the best interest of the City unless there is an existing contract with that blind company.And getting equal bids for equal
products from a couple of different suppliers might be in order.I think it needs to be looked at whether it is black out or daylight filtering. And
whether you do a single cellular or triple cellular. If we are interested in energy efficiency,maybe you have already run an efficiency check,and see if
these are the highest rated.
Michaela said let me speak to this a little bit.We thought last year,let's just get a bid to see.So,I take your point if we have a city contract going that
is an excellent point.Obviously,we would run through procurement.We just wanted to get a ballpark on the costs.And we haven't done any sort of
review of triple verses single cellular.Any thoughts on that matter are welcome.
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The committee members stated our focus here is on visual,not necessarily that component.I understand it is important to you,but our perspective is
historically they have been rejected because I believe it was the look from the outside. Because we are trying to maintain the aesthetic from the
outside as well as the inside.And if we remember correctly,it was because the blind previously proposed was a different color and changed what the
building looked like from the outside.That was where that decision came from.
Travis said obviously the cellular blinds will look different than what we have throughout the building.But the guidelines do say uniformity throughout
the spaces.At night they will look different no matter what color they are because they block 100%of the light.Louvered blinds allow light to go out.
The other issue that we need to consider is there is less control of the outside color then we do get from the louvered blinds.Because they have a
lighter color on the outside for thermal performance.So,these are my concerns.One is it is not going to match the rest of the building although that
is outside the design criteria.Two they are for sure going to look different because they block 100%of the light and then three the color again during
the daytime.So,as you look across the building you're going to see that difference.Also,cellular blinds you would have to do custom color fabricated
because they are very limited on color availability. Catherine asked would they have the striated look to them. Travis said up close they would have a
striated look but from far away light doesn't come through and you won't get that.It will be either uniformly dark or uniformly light.
Which would have to be considered by Josh,if he is going to be replacing them. Josh said yeah,and we told them that.Facilities will maintain the
current blinds,if they are broken,we can get parts for them.We will not maintain a new system because we can't go about having all the parts for
everything right.We will maintain what's already installed.But if it gets approved and they go ahead and do this,we cannot maintain them.
John asked about the quote you received,was it for the whole building or just certain rooms. Michaela said I wish it was for the whole building but
no it was just for our main spaces.Just room 406's big space and that entire western wall that faces the courthouse.
And the other committee members had concerns because the exterior windows with these types of blinds would look different during the day and at
night because the blinds could be drawn from the top down or bottom up.Also,for uniformity that the outside of the blind would have to be color
matched with the existing blinds.These cellular blinds proposed are black out not daylight filtering which would make them look different as well.And
although they like many of the aspects of these blinds,we don't think these matches what the design guidelines say. We appreciate the thermal
performance of these and the top down,bottom up becomes very functional,but they didn't feel that they match the design guidelines,specifically
from the exterior aesthetically.
Barbara asked,so that I understand correctly,that these rooms would be just a part of this elevation. Michaela stated,correct it would not be all of
the 41h floor.It would only be on the west side of the building,Rooms 406,435&437 with the conference room between the corner offices and the
corner offices getting it.It would be our entire office space.And these are all Priority B spaces. Our biggest concerns are glare from the windows and
the thermal aspect.So,the ability to raise the blinds from the bottom up rather than just lowering them from the top down would help with this.And
control how incredibly hot it is in there.We have people working from five to seven,even four to seven blocks and if you want to open the blinds you
get a lot of glare from the light on the computers,so we thought the cellular pull from bottom up would help with UV protection and would resolve
the light glare issues.
Michaela said there is something else to consider is the half-moon windows.They might have to create a sort of fanning covering which I don't
particularly like.But we are not the only ones who are struggling with the blinds.The endeavor is to figure out what is appropriate.Even if we can't
pull the trigger this year or next year.I think it's worth some effort and however we can help we would be happy to do so.
The committee members understand her concern about fanned blinds in the half-moon windows.We would almost say that those windows are just
not going to have a covering.But again,we are not trying to act in that role because that is not our role in this committee.But we all understand for
energy efficiency and a thermal comfort perspective,nobody's say that we are prohibiting you from being comfortable in your offices.It's more a
matter of making a uniform decision that future people can follow.And as a committee,we need to look at this as a building wide approach even if
it's not going to be building wide instantly.
The committee members asked if the planning department could work with the Facilities department to determine some kind of a window covering.
That could work going forward,which could be implemented over time&that Facilities would be on board with.By looking at how easy it is to repair
and whether it would work aesthetically as well.But that could be used throughout the building.There are other window covering options other than
the cellular obviously you could investigate such as UV coating with cellular as an option.A roller blind that has a UV coating where you still have
insulation value because you have that air gap. But I think it needs to be a bigger conversation with Salt Lake Facilities&perhaps they need to help
take the helm,a little bit,to guide to a uniformity for the entire building.With a window covering that's going to be energy efficient,cost efficient,
and sustainable for all of it.Which goes back to the Salt Lake City sustainability guidelines.You don't want to have a cheap product that you have to
throw away after it breaks.And so being able to careful vet the blind or window covering being used.So,if the committee says yes this is the right
color&type of window covering.Then it is still a burden on Salt Lake Facilities to make sure it's a good investment.Whoever is paying for it because
we don't want different types of products all over the building.It needs to meet the uniformity standards per the guidelines.You don't want a
cascade effect where you guys do your own thing,and the next group comes along,and they do something else that's their own thing.So now you
have random coverings.Especially from the exterior building showing all the differences.The guidelines state uniformity throughout the building.
Especially aesthetically from the exterior of the building as this happened over the next twenty years.That the blinds are close enough in color&style
that it doesn't just jump out at you from the exterior of the building.
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Catherine said so if I were evaluating window coverings to pick,I would look at how long has the company been around and are they a reputable
known company.Is their product a commercial grade product and well rated.Do we have some type of UV protection or is it just going to disintegrate
from the light.Because that is a big problem on our west and south facing windows.
Catherine said are there any other questions or comments on this one or should we move on to the next agenda item.And before we move to the
next agenda item,we will leave this one in as an action item that David and Michaela and Facilities can get together and come up with a proposal that
would over time become a building wide approach for window coverings for their area and the whole building.
John asked is the request to bring solutions to be reviewed. Laura said that would be up to Michaela.Michaela said they were okay with that.We
don't have the budget for it this year.We had the budget last year when we were looking at these.So,if we need to take more time and help to be
part of this discussion.It's not super time sensitive for us. They are happy to help,knowing that is going to come to committee again from someone
else.And we are on board with whatever you decide.
Sean asked,do you think this type of change would require a certificate of appropriateness because it does impact the appearance from the outside
of the building.Michaela said not technically from our side with the HLC because it is only exterior changes.Sean said I was just curious because it
impacts the exterior appearance. Michaela said I feel this committee is keen on Facilities and all of us figuring this out and seeing what's best for the
building and what will work.
Catherine said,okay,and with that if we can move on to the next agenda item. We will look forward to a revised proposal from you guys in the
future.
Agenda Item 4: Review Ordinance to Amend Committee Members Representative's Names
Catherine said Jaysen can you please help me understand this agenda item. Jaysen said regarding committee members'representative names,I am
honestly not certain what we are talking about here. Laura explained it's regarding each individual committee member,some individuals are listed as
being representatives of certain groups and others are listed as member at large.And I believe it is part of the Ordinance where it is listed.So,we
wanted to pull up the Ordinance and just look at it.
Catherine asked did this agenda item come about because some of the organizations have changed their names.Laura confirmed that is the reason
we added it to the agenda. Catherine asked Jaysen,we just need to update the Ordinance to make sure it reflects what the current representative's
group name is.That was our intention.
Barbara said one of them,I think,was listed as representative of the Historical Society.And really it should be a representative of the State Historic
Preservation Office because the state separated them into two separate organizations.Both are still state government.But the preservation people
are at SHPO and not Utah Historical Society. Robyn stated this is also the case with the Utah Heritage Foundation which changed their name to
Preservation Utah.
Jaysen said in section 2.39.030,it describes the creation of the committee and that's where we got that composition.And it does look like that is the
case,which may be where the concern is.It lists we have a member of the Utah Historical Society,a licensed engineer,a landscape architect,one
member of the Salt Lake City Arts Council board,one member from the Utah Heritage Foundation and one licensed architect and there are 2 at large
member representatives.So,it sounds like Utah Historical Society maybe something we need to address.My question is it sounds like Utah Historical
Society may still exist,but it is no longer the appropriate entity.Barbara said that's right.The State Preservation office used to be part of the Historical
Society and the legislature last year separated it into two separate entities.So,the State Historic Preservation Office(SHPO)is the one with expertise
on historic buildings.
Jaysen asked who currently is filling the Utah Historical Society role.Barbara said It is Anne Oliver.Jaysen asked and Anne is a member of the Utah
Historical Society. Barbara said no she is a representative of SHPO(State Historical Preservation Office).Jaysen stated okay.Barbara explained SHPO
has a small staff of 10 people who work there and it's part of the State government.It is not a membership organization.So,I think it would be
somebody SHPO recommends as opposed to someone on their staff. Laura said their official name is Utah Stated Historic Preservation Office and
Anne Oliver is the representative for them.We also have Robyn Taylor-Granda who represents Preservation Utah which used to be called Utah
Heritage Foundation.Laura said that one also needs to be changed. Robyn confirmed and explained that the parent company of the organization is
still Utah Heritage Foundation but everything else is DBA as Preservation Utah.
Jaysen said it just sounds like we just need to update that portion of the Ordinance maybe use language instead of one member of Utah Heritage
Foundation,put one member recommended by them for the appropriate company.And then maybe even adding and or its successor entity.Or
something like that.With that change it could get things going forward.That being the case I can just take a stab at the language and put something
together as far as the Ordinance goes.And then we can look at routing it through the City Council.
Catherine thanked Jaysen.Jaysen thanked the committee members stating he appreciated their context and input.
Agenda Item 5:Potential Committee Member Recruit Progress
Laura said I was contacted by Anne Oliver,and she was in contact with SHPO,and they have made a recommendation for an individual,whose name
is Caitlyn Barhorst.Robyn's said she is on one of my committees so don't wear her out.Laura explained I've sent the application to her to complete.
Robyn clarified they go by they/them.Laura stated that they told me they would work on completing the application.But I have not received it back
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yet.So,once I receive it then the Facilities Director will review it and then he will submit a letter of recommendation to the mayor's office.So that is
where we are,at this point.
Barbara asked was it a recommendation from SHPO or a recommendation from Preservation Utah.Laura confirmed it was from SHPO.Chris Merritt at
the State Historic Preservation Office.
Robyn stated Caitlyn owns a company called Restoration West that does historic window restoration aside from being a full-time architect. We rely
very heavily on them for referrals.Catherine stated well maybe they can help us with the windows in this building. Robyn's said yeah that would be
wonderful.
Laura said anyway I wanted to let you know where we are at this point and that we do have a candidate.And where we are in the process.
Barbara said last time we talked a lot about other people for other open positions.Have we already contacted them.Are they in the process.Laura
stated not yet.Barbara,John and Jenny's terms are all expiring in July,and we will be working on those positions probably in the next month. I will
contact Matt Wallace.Catherine was going to contact Karen Ferguson.Catherine said only if we agree on which roles people are filling and making
sure they are qualified to fill those roles. I want to make sure we don't get people's hopes up and then decide that's not the right position for that
person.
Laura explained I figured we would talk about it more in the future as it gets closer.Then you all can help assist and decide on the recommendations
for the other positions that are open for the people whose terms are expiring in July.
Barbara said I really think we should start.Catherine said that is what I am thinking.Can we talk about it right now if that is okay. Just so I understand
we have one position open which is a representative from SHPO. Barbara said yes and that is Anne Oliver who is the current representative for SHPO.
Catherine asked Jenny what's your position,are you a member at large.Jenny said I am a licensed landscape architect.Catherine stated we need to
figure out someone for your role. Were you thinking Matt Wallace. Jenny said no,I have a couple people that I am thinking about,but they don't fit
the Salt Lake City living and working criteria.They both live and work in Utah County.So,I will have to contact some others. It's harder because we
are a smaller group of people,so I am going to have to do some more digging.
Catherine mentioned I don't know if you know. I recently worked with a company called LOCI and I have been very impressed by them and their very
thoughtful nature.We did a Utah State monument with them for a new Golden Spike Monument.And the amount of research they put in.Reading a
lot of literature and history on this,it was quite impressive.So,if you want me to get some names from LOCI let me know.Jenny said I am familiar
with them but that is good to know,thank you.
Laura said there are 2 other committee members who are members at large.John stated one is probably me in July. Catherine asked but first
Barbara.Barbara and John both stated I think all 3 of us are the same,with terms ending in July.Catherine asked so we have 2 members at large and
do we have suggestions for these 2-member at large positions.So,we can balance the board and make sure everything is covered.
Barbara mentioned I don't know Matt,but I know in the last meeting that somebody had talked about it and that they thought he would be a good
addition to the committee.Catherine asked if maybe it was Anne who talked about Matt. Laura confirmed yes it was Anne. Catherine said I know we
were talking about Matt&we also talked about Karen.I know both of them pretty well.I think they are both great individuals.And I think there was
some discussion on trying to fill one position with someone with a construction industry background,which might be good. Even though it's an at
large position it would be good to have on this committee.John said yeah there has been one in the past.It was Terry Wright before me from the
construction industry.So,we probably want to be consistent there.Jenny stated I just think it has been helpful.Sean added we have always had
someone from the construction industry on the committee.
Catherine asked John who do you think,in terms of your expertise,that you have used while being here on this committee.So,we can try and figure
out someone as a possible candidate for your position.We probably don't need someone to have a lot of foundation type construction work
expertise,maybe it's more restoration type existing historical contracting.
Travis said I have a name that comes to mind is Steven Burt,with ENTELEN Design.Sean said yeah,I was thinking of that same name.Travis stated he
has done restoration work.He is close to retirement and may have a little more time on his hands.He is also an architect. Catherine asked does he
work or live in Salt Lake.Travis said I don't know. I would have to ask him about that one.
Catherine asked Jaysen,can you tell me what the ramifications are if we had a candidate that neither worked nor lived in the boundaries of Salt Lake
City. Jaysen said that is a good question.typically,that could be problematic.It depends on how the code is set up.We do have some code section
that would allow candidates from outside the city.Typically,that is when we are having a really hard time finding a viable candidate pool.So,it is
something that could be done if it is the approach that we want to use.The committee members asked Jaysen to see if there is anything in the
Ordinance which states if a candidate could be eligible if their office or their business is in the Salt Lake area.Jaysen said I am looking right now.I am
not certain that it is addressed to be honest.I did not see it in 2.39.1 will take a look in section 2.07,which is our general requirement,and see if
we've got anything there.
Jaysen said we have in 2:07.040 subsection 5,it says appointees should be city residents unless an exception in this code or other law applicable to a
particular city board provides otherwise.So,I think that is kind of a basic thing that we are working with. And I haven't seen an exception to date,
worked into the code section.
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Catherine asked Jaysen,the interpretation that has been provided to me previously allowed someone whose point of business contact was in Salt
Lake City.Even though they themselves were not residents.Does that seem already a stretch.
Jaysen said yes that could be a stretch.Given what we got so far.It seems like the default is you must be a city resident.Unless there is something
that says otherwise.I haven't seen anything that says otherwise per say.I think the argument that could be made in some instances where we have
these vary specified individuals.Someone who is from the Historic Preservation board and a licensed architect you could potentially argue that would
be an exception.But I think there is still some weakness where as long as you have candidates who are city residents you may be arguing uphill a little
bit.But at least there is an argument there.But if push comes to shove,it would probably be better to have something written in.If we are going to
be changing 2.39.040 it may be worth making an exception,explicitly addressing it in one of the other codes sections that applies in 2.39 or even
2.39.030 where it talks about a committee composition.It seems like we could just throw something in there as well.Which could potentially address
nonresident status or someone whose business operates within Salt Lake City.
John Kemp said yeah,I think it makes a lot of sense if at least their business operates in Salt Lake City.Travis added business owner,or they work at a
business in Salt Lake City. John said I think either. I mean I don't live in Salt Lake City.But my business is in Salt Lake City,and I work in Salt Lake City.
All the committee members agreed as long as the business is in Salt Lake City.
Travis said when I was talking with Rob about the appointees,I told him I own a business in Salt Lake City he said oh yeah you are fine.Catherine said
when Jerod recruited me.Jerod lived in West Valley. Jenny added it would be super hard,architects are one thing.My group,landscape architects,
are a much smaller group you know.You would be hard pressed to find one in Salt Lake City.
Catherine said I think we could make the argument especially with the members at large maybe should represent city residents. It's just a thought. I
think there is a lot to be said,probably there are quite a few architects who are in Salt Lake City and maybe what we should have done was check that
the architect is in Salt Lake City before going further. I don't know. Jaysen,if you could investigate it so we are not being the arbiters of something we
really don't want to be in the middle of.That would be great.
Jaysen said I can take a look and can propose some potential language.Sounds like what we are trying to do is open the field to individuals who are
either city residents or who own or work at a business with an address in Salt Lake City or something like that.Okay I can put something together and
take one more look to see if there is something elsewhere that may already provide some of that clarification.
Catherine said that would be very helpful.So,in terms of names,we need some names to fill the two open spots.And I think maybe we can work on
finding somebody who's in the construction industry who has a connection to Salt Lake City.
John asked does everyone agree that the construction industry is right,I mean it's an at large seat.It's not listed as a profession.Sean said yeah
someone in the construction field would be very helpful.It's a good idea.John stated,alright I can suggest some names,but I don't have it prepared
right now. Catherine said that's alright.We just need someone who fits within the kind of function of this committee.That is important.Someone
who has the time and is interested in participating.John stated I will narrow my list down.There's a lot of good people out there.
Catherine asked,Barbara do you have an idea of somebody you want to fill your seat. Barbara said I could do more research. I hadn't done any
because last time I thought Matt Wallace had already been approached.And people had thought he would be a great addition. Laura said but then
there was also Karen Ferguson. Catherine said so we can look at both of them as potential.
Barbara stated so if you think either of these people would be a good addition taking my place,then I am fine with that.So,if you need to reach out
to them. Catherine said I need to reach out to Karen on another matter anyway,so I will put it on my to do list&will ask her if she is a Salt Lake City
resident.Because I don't know.But didn't Matt already submit an application.Laura said he did previously.Catherine stated,which Karen has not.
Laura responded stating Karen was contacted and spoke with Jim Cleland about the Conservancy&Use Committee. Barbara said so if either of these
people meet the city qualification,and you think they would be a good for the at large candidate,I'm fine with either of them.
Laura said I will contact Matt and see if he is still interested.Travis said I know Karen and she is great.John stated we should follow up with Karen too.
Catherine said I don't mean to advocate for anyone person. Laura explained that we just have to narrow it done to one.
Catherine said Karen's expertise is phenomenal.Sean stated yeah,she has worked on this building.Laura said whereas Matt does not have the
background,he has done some school courses in historical preservation.Catherine clarified you mean Matt Wallace. Laura confirmed.Catherine said I
just knew him from working with him 15 years ago. And as I understand he is just a general practitioner architect.Karen is historical&I don't think
that is a mischaracterization. Barbara said I think we should go for her because I think that is the expertise that I was supposed to bring to the
committee. Because I worked at SHPO forever.Catherine said she has been working now exclusively on the new project at the Utah State Capitol,
State Office Building,that's her baby.She is just steeped in historical architecture.That's why I was thinking she would be appropriate for the
committee.Not trying to champion one person over another,just looking at the fit with the committee.
Barbara said I think someone with that historical preservation background would be a good.Travis said she is not licensed so she could fill my seat,
but she could fill the at large seat position.Sean mentioned she was a project manager with BCLI on the stone restoration on this building,so she
knows this building.Barbara said let's try her first.Catherine said alright I will contact her.
John asked one quick question,when we talked about the construction individual you both mention Steven Burt I don't know Steven. Travis said I just
texted him to see if he lives in Salt Lake City. Sean mentioned maybe Paulsen,John Paulsen he has done some work here.He has done great work at
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the Security Library.He is a busy guy but maybe he is someone also.Travis said he is a good guy. Sean said yeah,he has been great on every project.
John said I can think of some others.I will work on that.
Catherine said Paulsen is good and I have worked with them a lot.There's CDC Restoration,I don't know if you have worked with them,they are very
specialized contractors.But John,I think you are much better suited to come up with a list of good contractors.Right now,the crew I know is Okland
on the Capitol north Office Building.I could bring some of their names as suggestions.But what they are working on right now is a new building.It
looks like a historical building but as we all know that is a very different kind of animal. But maybe think about it John and let us know next time if you
have some ideas,we can kind of help you.John said I will do that I will come up with some names.Catherine stated but we all agree having some kind
of construction is valuable.
Robyn said you all have a lot of combined experience.Preservation Utah took over the preservation directory from SHPO years ago and we are
looking to update that.So,we would love any referrals that anyone can give us. Because we are down to one person who can do masonry and we
have a lot of chimneys out there needing repair.Travis said I assume that mason would be John Childs. Catherine recommended CDC Restoration
they have done the old South High.Robyn said there are only 3 of us on our staff.There is a 41h person,but she just does the revenue stuff. So,I will
probably bug everyone because this committee is an important source to have.There are a lot of people on the directory that we don't even know if
they are still in operation. Travis said do you know,if it was specific to Kevin Hadfield,I would recommend him.Robyn said who is that.Travis said he
is with Abstract.He is wonderful. Robyn said okay thanks. Travis stated they were the masons on our renovation here. Robyn said okay.Yeah,we
have an incredible number of people calling us who had their chimneys cleaned and then they collapsed.Catherine mentioned it's nice they are
contacting you. Robyn said they are required to contact us because we have easements on their properties.Catherine responded oh okay.Robyn
stated we have to do surveys of each property that we have easements on,and our interns have been doing them.Now that I am here,I will be doing
them.The whole summer myself.And I will be doing really baseline documentation.So,nobody can count on me for anything this summer.I have 127
buildings.We have been enforcing this for about 20 years.It's what happens when you really start looking into everything. Catherine said,well we all
have resources&you are part of the email list so we can reach out to you.If we come across one,we can shoot you an email.
Catherine said this move on to our last agenda item.
Agenda Item 6:Discuss Washington Square's Upcoming Safety Enhancement Project
Sean said,we have a pending significant project we are just working on.I will let Nathan and Josh describe the history of it.But what I would like to
get out of the meeting today,if possible,is like what we had for our seismic repair project.If we could have a representative from this committee that
we can work with in between meetings.Because this particular project has a pretty tight schedule.So,I don't know if we can take action on that,but I
hope that we can.Catherine asked are there a lot of rapid changes,like in the construction industry,there are typically lots of changes through formal
written paperwork.Changes which are passed through written documents back and forth on what is happening within this field,when you need
changes approved in the field.Sean explained it is a little more like we are developing concepts and having the input from this committee available to
us to work with our consultant would be of great benefit. So,we can get into the details.But we don't even have all the funding for the construction
we anticipate needing yet. But what we are trying to do is develop some concepts and we will go into more detail later.Developing concepts so that
Nathan can go and acquire additional funding for the project.And be aggressive in that endeavor because this is somewhat of a priority for
administration here.
Catherine asked in terms of contracting do you already have an architect that you have hired for this.Sean stated we have hired an initial consultant.
It may not be the design consultant for the actual construction,but they are advising us through the concept.Catherine asked,I am just wondering if
they could come and discuss it to be part of this meeting.If that is appropriate.Sean said,we have such an aggressive schedule it would be one
meeting at best.Which is why I am hoping we can get someone from the committee.Jenny asked what the schedule is.Sean said potential 6 weeks
from next week.Jenny said I think that is a problem where I could help. It's for Washington Square right.Sean confirmed if you are volunteering.
Jenny said I am volunteering,that's my job. Nathan said yes,your correct it is for Washington Square.Sean said maybe we can now get into it and yes,
a landscape architect is the right person for this.
Sean asked Nathan to go into the history of this. Nathan said the large conversation started in 2019 when we had GSBS come out and do an
assessment of our building and Plaza 349.One of the considerations was exterior vulnerability and at that point in time we hadn't had 2020 happen.
Then we had 2020 happen and realized there are a lot of vulnerabilities.Part of my goal and the institution of my goal is to consider this building as
our most vulnerable facility in the city. Considering the number of patrons who come here.The politicians are here,our mayor's office and our city
council's office.High probability targets for political violence.So,part of my role is to do a vulnerability assessment for this facility and one of the
findings was considering our exterior.We have done a lot for the interior that's been plain to see,right. The ballistic film on a lot of the windows was
a fantastic upgrade.The security stations to get into the building,a lot of those we can see those differences.One of the biggest issues right now is
the accessibility of an attack on the building by a vehicle its easy.You can drive a truck right up the stairs and into the building and detonate a bomb
and then everyone is done.
Travis asked what about protestors on site.Has there been anything considered to protect them.Sean said we are working through it.It's one of the
vulnerabilities.Nathan confirmed it's on the list.Sean said there are several vulnerabilities that are being addressed.But for this project,it is vehicular
which is the emphasis.Travis said okay I just wanted to make sure.Nathan explained a body worn explosive devices isn't going to be catastrophic
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enough to take down the building.Whereas a vehicle would be.So yes,protestors on site how do we deal with something like that,when this is a
public space.That is being looked at but not for this project.
Travis stated my project was at the State Capitol and that was their greatest concern because there had been incidents of cars driving into crowds of
protestors and that was their greatest concern was actually the protestors as opposed to the building.The building actually has K12 bollards at the
entrances. John asked so more or less people were being injured by a vehicle.Travis said yes,my project was regarding big groups of people outside
and a vehicle running into them because that has happened quite a bit.
Nathan stated in fact what the Capitol is doing especially around the exterior of the building&around the block is a lot of what we're thinking about.
So,let's get into the meat.If you look around the property line here,we have a lot of great trees around the property however you can fit vehicles
between every single tree. On our corners we have some bollards but there are dead spots. It's very easy,in fact when I was on the mayor's security
detail,we would drive up the property all the time if 200 East was shut down for a festival.It was very easy. So that's one of our considerations,is
what can we do between the trees,what can we do to fill in with bollards.The biggest issue that we are facing right now is at the horseshoe entrance
off 200 east. How do we create something that's not hideous but at the same time has something that protects us from a vehicle that is charging in.
So that's basically what we are looking at.How much deeper do you want to go Sean.Sean said we are not ready to go much deeper.
Catherine said I would be just curious on the big picture thinking about the site plan what types of and sizes of vehicles.Obviously,a motorcycle could
get through a tinier spot,right.What types of or sizes of vehicles are you looking at preventing and getting from where with the horseshoe circle,
unless you close it down from access.
Nathan&Sean said which is the idea.Nathan clarified It would be controlled access. He said we won't be able to close it down completely,we have
FeclEx,UPS,Mail Service,etc.but it would be controlled access.We have ADA which needs access right up to where the current spots are. So,it
would be utilizing security guards with a checkpoint at the entrance of the horseshoe and then we are looking at other options on what we can do.
Travis suggested there could be a row of bollards in front of the stairs.K12 bollards are rated to stop at a 15,000-pound vehicle at 50 miles per hour.
Nathan said yeah.Travis said certain points could be set up to protect the building.The horseshoe could potentially stay open and then bollards
between the horseshoe and the building could stop a car.Nathan said yes but if you think about the roadway that goes right around the building.You
could park a truck or van within 5 feet of the building itself and bollards would only protect the stairs,but the entire building is vulnerable.
Jenny said this was years ago when I was in grad school,I worked for someone who was a landscape architect,but he had a specialty in persons with
a disability.He worked on modeling for Washington DC parks because he was working on a project where they were putting in all these planters that
were solid concrete and needed to look at spacing between them.Another thing to consider is egress from the building because if you put in so many
obstacles getting in and you should consider the people leaving the building in an emergency,if they can get out of the building quickly.
Nathan said which is one of the main reasons why we are looking at the property line.Jenny concurred,which I think is probably more the area to
look at.Nathan said yes,it doesn't really change much inside the area for events like Living Traditions and Pride Festival.But we need to think about
it. How do we not impact these events and at the same time try to protect everyone that is coming in&out of the area.And so,like what the Capitol
has done with the concrete benches and the boulders which look fantastic&are very functional. It's those kinds of ideas we are looking at.
Travis mentioned as a general rule,we had 2 levels of protection.One was no gap greater than 36 inches in certain areas and in other areas we went
out to 50 inches. Jenny added if you get someone in a wheelchair,which was what his emphasis was.He provided models showing a view of how it
would walk and might impede people from leaving because if a person with a special need is trying to go through a very small space could cause an
issue.Nathan stated so for this project we are trying to look at what size vehicle to consider. A motorcycle is still about the size of someone walking in
and detonating.So,we are looking at more like a small typical 4 door sedan and then anything larger than that.
Catherine said so I just brought up this google map of the building site.What we are looking at on the right-hand side of the screen is the horseshoe
area where the car park area is currently.But even on our west side there is not much to prevent vehicles from coming up from that side as well.
Nathan said right I have driving on it multiple times.Sean said that will all be part of this study.Catherine said right now you're looking to make
enhancements to the exterior further out it sounds like.Nathan and Sean said yes.Jenny asked is the Urban Forestry Department involved on this
project. Sean said yes,there is a large stalk holder team at Urban Forestry. Jenny added because it will impact the grid systems and all those trees.
Nathan stated we have Public Lands,Urban Forestry,and we have the events coordinators on that list.And there are others. Travis stated at the
Capitol we had an arborist,and we discussed the air spacing within the canopy.Sean said yes,we have some trophy sized trees in this area which we
will all be reviewed as part of the team.
Catherine said so what help do you need from this committee.Are you planning to bring us maybe the site plans to look at.Sean said yes eventually
there will be formal requests for approval on the concepts.But what I am hoping for today is to get someone to represent this committee while we
develop the concepts.It would be so valuable during the meetings to have that knowledge of the design guidelines.Catherine said and Jenny I think
what we talked about previously in Rob's role with the seismic remediation. Is that Rob could make decisions based on the guidelines and we trusted
his opinion,right.And so,you can just make decisions that you feel meet the guidelines and you have a clear directive to make those decisions. If you
have questions on an urgent matter and are needing the committee,you are welcome to email us and then we could all weigh in on it.So,that way
we are not holding up the process.Catherine said does that sound reasonable.Sean said that would be great,that would be perfect for us.
Travis stated that I nominate Jenny for that position.Sean added we need a motion.
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Catherine said alright.So may I please have a motion to approve Jenny as the representative for the Salt Lake City Engineering Washington Square
Safety Enhancement Project.
Travis Sheppard said I motion to have Jenny fill the position.
Catherine asked do we have a second.
John Kemp Seconded the motion.
Catherine said all those in favor.
The Committee unanimously approved,and the motion passed.
All the committee members thanked Jenny.
Catherine has 2 announcements for discussion at the end if anyone has anything else now is a good time to do it.The committee members did not
have anything else.
Catherine said our next two meetings we have coming up,we have slated the 8th of April to be our Building Walk review and what that means is that
anybody who is here in person is going to be able to walk through the building.I don't think this is something we can do virtually for that meeting.I
have requested Jerod Johnson,who was from this committee emeritus,and he was the one who did the base isolation system for this building.He
will come and walk with us.And then we will have Travis here as well.So,we will have both a structural engineer and architectural representative and
don't know if there are any others.I don't know who the original architect was. Travis said oh I think I remember it was Burch Beal.Catherine said so
if there is anybody else that you would want to bring.Or otherwise,who would like to share,and the committee will be here.Travis asked do you
have any suggestions. Sean said I don't recall if we have ever had anyone but the original restoration team.Jenny said I think Jerod in the past knew
the system done.Sean asked,are you touring just the building or also the grounds.
Catherine stated I show the 8th of April our next meeting just the building and then the 131h of Mayjust the grounds.I have written that they are
trying to contact Tony Gliot and see if he's able to attend our meeting in May.As well as Joseph Ramos.Josh said he is over the grounds,Parks
Supervisor.Catherine said somebody from Parks and somebody from Urban Forestry would be great to attend our meeting in May.
Barbara asked do we have any events happening in May,around this time.Sean said maybe.Jenny said I think you need to just float this by them
because May is when everything is ramping up. Josh said there is an event in May,but it is later.Jenny stated but their work in general is ramping up
in May.Sean said the event is on the 17,18 and 19.So they may be here setting up.Jenny said we just need to ask them what their schedule is.
Catherine said so who can be in contact with them if that's a scheduling possibility for them. Josh said he would.And on April 81h our building review I
told Jerod we would try to keep our meeting as brief as possible so we can start walking by 5:00 which means we would need to move the pace of
this meeting a little faster,so we can give time for Jerod.So,if there is anything we can do to keep our agenda short for April's meeting and just march
through it efficiently that would be great.Sean said be sure to bring along some top gloves,it shouldn't take two.Catherine asked so when I
requested to bring top gloves you mean to see visual representation of the remediation.Sean confirmed we can open that up for inspection.
Catherine said and then if there is any way for you to review it ahead of time with Travis.Sean confirmed we can do that.Catherine said that would
give us an advantage.
Sean mentioned we want you to talk about globes in the next meeting,it should be a brief discussion.Barbara asked,are you able to find something
that's a close match. Sean said there are custom options which can work. But long term may not help facilities as much.But yes,there are custom
options.Jenny asked is this a common occurrence. Sean said it is not a common occurrence.Catherine asked when we talk about the globes will we
have some visual representation. Sean said yes.
Laura asked so in April do you want Jaysen to have the ordinance update,or do you want to wait until May to do that.Jaysen you are still online right.
Jaysen said yes,I am still here.
Catherine said Jaysen I think that would be very helpful information so we can make sure we are selecting the correct 2 committee members and
doing that appropriately.
Laura said okay,I will keep it on the April agenda.
John stated it might also be good for the 3 new committee members in July. It might be a good time for him to do that when the new committee
members come along.So,they can hear what the policy is. I mean when the new committee members join then Jaysen can go overall the ordinance
with them.It would be good for them and the newer people here.
Catherine said I think all we are doing for next time is getting Jaysen to clarify a couple minor points. I am not sure when it is that Jaysen will go over
everything but looking forward to it.
Jaysen said I think by the next time I can have some information.I can also probably have a draft to review with you.Catherine said perfect.Okay
thank you Jaysen.
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Kathy Davis said if you are having action items next time,I will not be available.So,you may want to make sure you have a quorum because I will be in
Texas for the eclipse.
Catherine asked do you think we will have a quorum.I know I will be here. John,Barbara, Robyn,Jenny,and Travis said they all would be here.
Catherine said we should be fine.Thank you for letting us know. Have fun.
Catherine asked are there any other announcements or items to discuss.May I please have a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Barbara Murphy motioned to adjourn the meeting.
John Kemp Seconded the motion.
The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn.
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