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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/18/2024 - Meeting Minutes MEETING MINUTES SALT LAKE CITY AND COUNTY BUILDING CONSERVANCY AND USE COMMITTEE HYBRID MEETING HELD,November 18,2024 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT EX OFFICIO MEMBERS PRESENT Catherine Tucker,Committee Chair Laura Marshall,SLC Facilities Travis Sheppard,Committee Vice Chair Josh Lander,SLC Facilities Mark Morris,Committee Member &aII lahe C111,&Couuty A1111(bing Sean Fyfe,SLC Engineering Steven Burt,Committee Member QCongerbanty&Nge Committee Jaysen Oldroyd,SLC Attorney's Office Kathy Davis,Committee Member Caitlyn Barhorst,Committee Member Karen Ferguson,Committee Member IDatr: December 9,2024 COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT Robyn Taylor-Granda,Committee Member Catherine Tucker welcomed everyone to today's Conservancy and Use Committee meeting. She began by asking each person to introduce themselves for a roll call.Those in attendance are as follows: Laura Marshall,Facilities;Josh Lander, Building Administrator; Mark Morris,Committee Member;Travis Sheppard,Committee Vice Chair;Steven Burt,Committee Member;Catherine Tucker,Committee Chair; Kathy Davis,Committee Member;Karen Ferguson,Committee Member;Jaysen Oldroyd,Salt Lake City Attorney's Office;Caitlyn Barhorst,Committee Member;and Sean Fyfe,Salt Lake City Engineering. Agenda Item 1:Review and Approval of Last Month's Meeting Minutes Catherine said alright we have a quorum.Will everyone please take a few minutes to review last month's meeting minutes. After a few minutes she asked if anyone had any comments or corrections to the minutes. If not,can I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes. Mark Morris motioned to Approve the meeting minutes. Kathy Davis Seconded the motion. Catherine said we will now vote on the motion to approve the meeting minutes from October 14,2024. All those in favor. Or any opposed. Steve Burt said I will abstain from voting since I was not at the last meeting. All the other Committee members unanimously voted to approve the meeting minutes. Agenda Item 2:Review Washington Square Security Camera's Revised Pole Design Catherine said Josh you are going to take the lead on this.Josh said for those online the drawing was attached to the calendar invite.If you guys recall last month,Nate Kobs presented the camera pole location and the design of the pole.And I think all the committee was okay with the location.Considering the power availability was only available at that spot. But the pole design was not approved.So,I reached out to Robinson Iron who did the fountains for the building as well as the ADA sign posts and other signs for the building. And they had a ready-made pole in their shop which the design is reflected in the attached pole design.Of course,we will do the same finish as the fountains and the other posts,which is a black wrought iron with a zinc coating with a light patina. This pole design is called the Lolani lamp post.This is generally not 10 feet tall but Nate wants a 10 feet tall pole.So, Robinson Iron has agreed that they will manufacture it a little bigger.This post design is intended for front yards as a neighborhood lamp post but they'll amend it by our design and height specifications. But you can kind of see the pole design here.Let me know If you have any questions. It's kind of self-explanatory. Travis asked is this the same company that is doing the fountains&have done other poles on the square.Josh said yes,it's the same company that is doing the fountains.They've done the ADA placards and smoking signs around Washington Square. Mark asked is this pole design the exact same design and style as the existing lamp posts.Josh said no,they are not the same style as the existing lamp posts on the square because Robinson Iron didn't do those.And I believe,the lamp posts are powder-coated aluminum.Maybe Sean has more information on that because he was involved with that job. Catherine asked Josh,what was the decision process to not go with something that matches the existing light poles. Josh said because I didn't know we want to actually match the light poles,because this pole was meant to be for the security camera. But it will match the other existing poles. Robinson Iron also did the bollards around the square.So,this security pole will match other poles on the square.Catherine said I just think that the proportions of the security pole will be very similar to the proportions of the existing light poles and that might be a more natural item to match. Part of the idea of a security camera is that you don't want everybody to know that it's there.And with this being a tall pole,if it was similar to the light poles,it would just be a little bit more camouflaged. 1 Josh said it will be higher than the existing lamp posts,but not a lot,at 10 feet.And as I mentioned before the drawing dimensions are not accurate, because this is the standard drawing they supply for neighborhood lights.They will be amending the design to be the height requirements we need, which is 10 feet. Steve asked,is that height what security wanted.Josh said yeah that's what Nate wants to keep the camera safe.Steve asked what's the purpose of the crossarm,is that just decorative. Josh said yes,the lamp posts currently have a crossarm and this is a very similar design. I should have taken pictures of them and included them here for you to see. Catherine said I guess I'm worried that if we have a pole that looks similar,but isn't identical,that it may look as though we were trying to match the lamp posts and couldn't. Also,I'm wondering if we're doing powder coated aluminum versus custom-made iron.There could be a lot of cost savings,if we were able to get a replica of the current lamp post.What do others on the committee think.Travis said I'm trying to pull up the image of the lamp post and the bollards to see. Mark said I'm looking at the lamp post I found on Google Street view,and it looks very similar to the base profile. Sean said yeah,I have a copy of the submittal for the lighting poles. I could share that image. The committee members said yes please. Sean added I did a rather quick search during our last meeting,and I sent this lamp post design shortly after our meeting in October to Nate and Josh. I vaguely remember going with a vendor that could take these pieces to create a similar pole to what I've shown. Sean said this was the submittal for the lighting project,and it should be noted that this pole sits on a 2-and-a-half-foot tall concrete cylindrical base. It's been a while,but I think they were precast,so they're taller.If you can imagine the lamp pole sitting on a cylindrical concrete base at the bottom. Here's the design drawing here.And then this sheet has a historical photo and the details to the left. So that's the existing lamp posts out on the square.And I think Josh,if you try to reach out to this vendor,they may be able to do a post without a light so the camera could mount on top. Josh said yeah,we could go that route if that's what we feel is appropriate. Catherine said I would love to hear the committee members'opinions or thoughts on this.Mark said I think the more we match the existing light posts,the more it's going to disappear which is the goal. Karen said I would concur with that.The closer it matches the lamp posts the better.Sean said yeah,I agree.I like the consistency of the same post type.If we could make that work. Mark asked Josh,do you know what the camera looks like or how big.Josh said I don't know I'd have to ask Nate. Mark asked is it small enough that you could mount the camera inside the globe. Sean said that's a reasonable question. I was thinking the same thing.Steve said it may not work if it has any kind of motion or infrared sensitivity in it.Mark said yeah that is true the glass might be an issue.Josh said I'll have to get the details of the camera from Nate.He didn't share that with me. Travis asked Sean I'm looking at Google Earth at Washington Square and the image isn't great of the poles,but the globe doesn't look the same as what's on the screen.Sean said it should be.Karen said I'm on Google Map&the difference is that there's some images that are at the street edge, and they look different.But when you go into the horseshoe area the lamp post is the same.Sean said yeah,you want to look at the horseshoe. Karen said I'll share what I'm seeing on Google Maps. Sean said yes,those are the current light posts. The Committee members confirmed the light posts match Sean's drawing.Sean added you can kind of see in the image the concrete cast base on some of the lamp posts. Catherine said when we were doing our site walk around the square.A group of us were talking about how matching the light poles would be a good idea for the security camera pole.My personal opinion is it doesn't matter whether it's just a black generic security camera,or a globe at the top of the pole.I think what I care more about is what's lower at eye level,that it matches the existing light posts.What do others think.The Committee members agreed.Catherine said I'm leaning towards telling Salt Lake City,so that we don't hold them up any further.That we could take a vote today,to approve the pole if it matches the existing light poles and the security camera is black and not too big.But again,that's my personal opinion what do others think. Steve asked will the security pole have a concrete base.Josh said yes.Travis added I'm with you Catherine.With security cameras,the technology for these changes a lot and pretty often.So,I don't think we should require some kind of custom camera that works within the globe.Although it would be nice if it were hidden like that.But having the pole look like the light post with the two arms,then you would be able to replace the camera on top of the pole with whatever the latest technology is more easily.Rather than trying to fit it inside a globe. Catherine added and then we're not interfering with the function of the security camera.We're letting the security guys do what they're good at. Does anyone have any objections to going ahead and letting the city move forward so that we're not holding up their security.Travis said yeah, I'd be willing to vote as long as the post comes from the previous manufacturer and matches the rest of the poles. Karen asked are the existing cameras already painted black. Sometimes that's an issue with some manufacturers.Josh said no the cameras that are mounted on the building are not painted black. But right now,there are no pole mounted cameras.Sean asked is the camera that Nate would like to purchase available in black. Josh said I'll have to ask Nate. He's purchasing them through Stone Security.There might be some sort of black housing we can put it in.Or even better in the globe if we can do that.These are things we'll have to ask Stone Security about. Steve mentioned I'm still worried about the globe. I think the globe has the potential to obscure the view and the whole purpose of the camera is to see.If we have a poor view through the globe that defeats the purpose.Josh said I can say there's already one camera that has a glass shroud around it,and it's always foggy and causes issues.I don't think Nate will be too excited about putting it inside glass. Catherine said so,if we can keep the language the same,that the precast concrete base and the pole are the same as the existing light poles.And then when you get to the top of the pole whether you want to have a globe with a security camera or just a security camera at the top,that's okay. I tend to agree that if we're putting a camera inside a globe,we're just creating a maintenance issue.Travis asked Josh,I thought I heard that it 2 couldn't be mounted onto an existing light pole because of the glare of the light affected the camera.Josh said the issue is the light pole is on a timer with a photocell.And there is a power issue because the light and the camera wouldn't have power during the day unless we ran a dedicated powerline to the pole just for the camera.And I think Nate didn't like it because there'll be glare at night casting too much light above or below it. Steve said I like the idea that the top of the pole just has one thing,either a light or a camera,not a combination of things. Mark asked are they hoping to install more cameras around the block like this.Are we setting the precedent that this will happen at more than just this location. Josh said I don't think that we can ever guarantee there won't be more cameras.But this is what's proposed right now. Mark said because I think if we just keep the same pole that has been used for the lights,and then if it's a globe at the top or a camera at the top it will feel more intentional.But I think it's probably a safe assumption that once there's one camera out there,there may be more.Josh said yeah and as we know,there's a security enhancement project going on.So,the future of the security of Washington Square will most likely be changing. Mark asked Josh,you mentioned currently the only cameras on the block are attached to the building.Are there other cameras around.Josh said yeah,Nate just bought a mobile camera trailer that he can move around Washington Square as needed.But he wants a fixed camera out at the end of the horseshoe.Travis asked does the mobile camera trailer have the flashing blue light on top.Josh said yeah,it's similar to what the Police Department uses. Steve said I'd support the idea of pre-approving this pole. Catherine asked well,and I think then the question is Josh,what can we do to help and what is your timeline.Would it be better for us to meet again in a month and review the final version or do you want us to preapprove it.Josh said I think if we pre-approved the design that makes everyone's life a little easier. I just want to confirm we are still approving the location because of the constraint of where we can pull power to place the pole.That's why we chose this location,so we won't need to tear up everything. Mark asked are they just running data to a data line.Josh said no,it's just power,well maybe I'm not sure. Laura said per last month's meeting minutes,Nate said they'll dig a small trench to run the wiring.Josh asked for the CAT and the electricity. Laura said yes,that's what Nate said.They'll dig a small trench to run the wires.Then place the concrete footing then attach the pole with the camera on top. Catherine said my instinctive reaction was I would want to have it be symmetrical in its location.But when we were on site I came to the opposite conclusion,they all just kind of blended in.And right now,it just looks organic like they're a bunch of light posts scattered around.It didn't seem to me that if we added one more pole in that location,that it would catch your eye as being out of place. But I do like the idea that we match the precast concrete base and match the pole,and then if we have future security cameras or future other electrical elements that they be similar on the site.But It's up to you regarding the location.Travis said but I think there not pre-cast,they're cast in place.Catherine said that's okay,either way,with a concrete cylindrical base. Steve asked can one of the building cameras see this location,in case there was vandalism to this new pole.Josh said there is a camera mounted right on the north end of the 3rd floor balcony that looks due east. Mark asked is this new camera pole intended to be pointed back towards the building.Josh said yes,this is to provide a west perspective from the east side of Washington Square,which is the front entrance.The current camera does not provide great front entrance coverage because it's mounted high and forward. Mark said yeah,I think if there's a pole located there,it's going to disappear with the other light poles. Catherine asked if there are any other comments. I just want to make sure we get everybody's viewpoints.Karen,do you feel like this really needs to be centered perfectly.What are your thoughts. Karen said no,I'm with you.I think it's a very organic thing and sometimes we get too rigid in those thoughts.I think it's a fine location. And then in the future,when they can run the trenches and place the Kiosk,then you could look at it more systematically.But for a one off,I'm fine.Catherine asked Travis,do you concur as well.Travis said I do. Catherine said okay so I'm going to try to phrase this and you guys feel free to jump in and correct me. May I please have a motion to pre-approve a security pole that matches the existing interior light poles with arms including the concrete base on Washington Square,as opposed to the perimeter light poles which are different,but excluding the globe on top and insofar as the security camera on top be black and all weatherproof,of course.Steve said at the proposed location.Catherine added at the location proposed and agreed to. Steve Burt said I so motion. Travis Sheppard Seconded the motion. Catherine said we will now have a vote on the pre-approval of this Security camera post. All those in favor.All those opposed. The Committee unanimously approved the motion. Catherine said the motion is passed.So hopefully.Josh,we're not holding you up anymore.And then,if you have further questions,of course,come back to us and we're happy to review.We just want to make sure that we're not getting in the way of your schedule. Agenda Item 3:Review Ticketing Desk Security Glass/Frame Project for Room 145 Josh said so if you're unfamiliar,the ticketing desk is where the public goes to pay parking tickets or put in a motion to defend against the parking ticket.Subsequently it does provide an area where some people get very upset and threatening.And we had a situation about a month ago that escalated and the police had to be involved. It was an eye opener for the ticketing agents,and they felt their desk area was not adequately 3 protected from the disgruntled public.Currently,here's a picture of the ticketing desk as it looks now. It's hard to tell in this photo,but there is a thin quarter inch plexiglass shield that's just sitting on the desk. It's more of a sneeze guard that was put up during Covid for protecting from germs. It really provides no physical protection. Nate wants to put in shatter resistant glass,not ballistic glass,just to keep people from trying to force their way across the desk.Here's a design that was provided by an on-call City contract glass provider,Valley Glass. This is the type of system they have put in other places.And here's a picture of Salt Lake County building with the glass shield. It would look very similar to that.Ours would be a bronze frame with a teller style glass with a slide through opening for cash and signing things.And then a little louver circle in the middle for the sound piece. Travis said so we recently did a design to protect the elections office at the Capitol.We did a study and found that the style of transaction window that has 3 pieces of glass,with a gap between the sides of the those.This allows you to see the person's mouth moving,whereas the other one with the metal circle covers their mouth.And the sound because it's an open slit instead of a small hole,it actually carries better.And the people on both sides of the glass can hear better. Have you considered something like that.Josh said no,this is just something that Valley Glass installed at the Salt Lake County building in that one of their areas.So,we could look at other glass shield options for functionality.We are looking for suggestions from the Committee on this. Travis said I mentioned it because we looked at a bunch of different ones.We actually tested them with the people from the elections office and had them try them out.And they thought that the ones with the gaps on the sides,where you could see the person's mouth moving and the acoustics were a lot better than having a metal hole.Steve asked Travis,do you have a picture on your computer you could share of that.Travis said I'll try and find it. Catherine said I have a separate topic on this example provided of the glass shield at the Salt Lake County building. It Is a very modern,clean design that doesn't correspond particularly well to the architectural style of the Salt Lake City&County Building.I understand that this perhaps is not a historically significant portion of the building.But I would argue that for the user experience. It might want to be more in keeping with the architectural style of the building.Steve said although the casework doesn't have much architectural character or style with the building. Catherine said and are we proposing that this needs to be bulletproof.And if so,for bulletproof to function it would need to go down through that counter base as well.Josh said it's just impact resistant,not ballistic.We can't afford ballistic.Catherine said and you can't afford to replace that counter so it's staying as is.Josh said yeah,the counter is not going to change other than anchoring the framing to the counter,but no other change.Steve asked looking at the photo of the counter,does that mean that the screen is going to make an L shape. Josh said yes,it's going to follow the contour of the L-shape of the desk.Steve said the whole length of the desk,and then it'll end at the wall closest to us in the photo. Josh said there's actually a gate at the end of the desk,not a wall,and it won't go across the gate.It's just going to the end of the desk.Steve said is it going to stay as a gate or will it be a door up against the wall.Josh said no it will continue to be a gate.Catherine asked Laura,could you show us the photo of the existing desk.So,Josh,I'm not seeing in this photo the gate.Is there a way for a person just to walk around the counter and get behind it.Josh said on the far right of the photo,down towards the bottom corner,that's the gate.The desk just kind of ends right there,and then there is a locked gate to get through to the employees'work area.Catherine said okay.Travis said it looks like it's a 3-foot-tall gate. Catherine said so,we've had this type of conversation in the council chambers where we were putting up a gate to be able to stop people from getting behind the desk.And I guess the intention here is that if somebody really wanted to get back there,they still could. But you're just trying to deter them or are you trying to really make this more secure. Josh said Nate is trying to keep people from jumping across the counter and strangling someone.Or punching someone in the face that doesn't agree with their ticketing experience.That's basically what it comes down to. I think ultimately what I'm presenting is the design,not the functionality that Nate has in mind. Catherine said and again what's your timeline on this.Do we have enough time so that we could see a shop drawing of what's proposed,and the materials for the framing of it.Josh said the material is a powder-coated aluminum and there's several colors.We thought the bronze color would look the best.Catherine said as opposed to doing an oak frame to match the counter.Josh said I don't think oak is robust enough to support the glass without a bunch of stanchions going up.Travis said we could engineer design it so that it would be strong enough to handle the weight. Catherine said or it could be oak veneer that is backed with either aluminum or steel,too.I understand that brings in more cost. I'm just looking at options.Trying to keep it simple,but also match the building. Josh said the underlying thing is the cost for this.Nate wants to keep it within budget obviously.He's looking to keep it around$7,000 to$8,000, and this is proposed at a little over$7,000 from Valley Glass.There's not a huge budget for this out of the security budget.So obviously,if there were no budget constraints we could do some great designs,like we have in the cashier's area.Which has a big beefy glass area. I don't know if you've been down there,but it is very substantial. Steve asked will the height of the screen be as shown in the dimensions.Josh said they will be 30 inches from the countertop to top frame.Steve said okay so not nearly as tall as the example,a little more than half of what the photo shows at the Salt Lake County building.Josh said yeah,this is just an example,it was provided so you would have an idea of what it looks like.The countertop in that ticketing area is rather higher at chest height.And we measured the glass height off of the employees in there,and they all felt comfortable with this height for the glass.Steve asked it says 42 and a quarter there on the right side.Is that the top of the counter from the floor.Josh said no that's the countertop length is 42 inches.Steve said okay,42 inch on the countertop,72 back to the framing at the corner.So that frame is only 6 feet long.Is that right.Josh said actually,that might be the measurements of where the glass jogs left. It's about here,but the glass will be setback another foot.It's more that it was cost prohibitive,if we went up any higher than 30 inches. If we went higher the cost of glass goes up a lot.So, we're trying to balance the budget,functionality and protection. 4 Catherine said so,Josh,my thought on this is that perhaps we need to find more money to do this correctly. I'm a little worried about having it be so short that somebody could just throw a big gulp right over it,on top of someone's head.And if they're willing to punch you in the face.They're absolutely willing to throw something at you. I would think that we want to make sure that we're doing something to actually adequately address the issue and also maintain the architectural character of the building. Josh said okay so respectfully,I will take the second point.The first point is this is what Nate wants,not what the committee agrees would be the safest.Catherine said yeah,that's very fair. Josh said so,I will go back to Nate and see if we can come up with a more appropriate design for the building for the framing system.Maybe we'll get in touch with Travis or someone outside of this meeting.Travis said yeah,I could help with this.Karen asked is there a reason that the window spacing is all different because it just seems a bit weird.Josh said ideally you would do 4 exact sections.After talking to the manager there about the way they have their workstation set up,this is where he wanted each patron to be. Because it is not just ticketing in there.There's another group of people in there as well.I can't remember the other group's name,but they have a separate area.And this is what they wanted.So,we are trying to get the input of all the shareholders of that space,as well as what Nate felt he needed for that. And yeah,it looks funky,I agree.But we need to make it functional for the occupants. Catherine said you know,I appreciate Josh,how difficult this is to be the go between with our committee,where we're not familiar with their functional needs.And then go to the user who of course doesn't want to be impinged upon with stylistic concerns.They just need their functional concerns addressed. I think the question here is from a space planning functional standpoint.Is there a reason that we couldn't make 4 equal windows.And again,we're just asking.We're not familiar with it.Josh said I'll bring that point up to Nate again. I don't think the user in that space will like that,because that's the way they have it setup in there.Which is the reason that we did it that way in the drawing.But I will ask. Steve said if you went to a frameless system that was somehow anchored into the top of the existing base and done in sections like Travis mentioned. It wouldn't really matter where those go because anybody could sit anywhere along there if you could get rid of the frames.Josh said I think the run was too long to do it completely frameless because we brought that up.Steve said but if you did it like Travis was talking about where you had multiple sections with gaps between.Josh said you will still need the teller style with the pass-through openings.Travis said yeah right you could do that.Josh said and this is where they wanted the teller pass-through openings,based on how they use that space.Steve said I don't think that would be a problem,though.Josh said so you're saying if you got rid of the frames it wouldn't look as disproportional.Travis said possibly. Josh said so again, I think a run of 268 and a quarter inches,without altering the desk,is too long to be frameless.Karen said that's correct.You can't get glass that size. Steve said no,but if you did it in 38-inch or 36-inch sections and then had a gap between. I'm just thinking that the absence of a frame would be less impactful than trying to match oak or anything else.You can see what you've got there already along that right hand side it almost disappears. It seems to me that it would be a better solution than having a frame there,especially if you're a 6 foot 4 tall guy,and you come in,and the frame is at 6 feet. I think it's just going to feel uncomfortable at that height.Catherine said I think these are all really good points.And perhaps,Travis,if you have the time in your schedule to show Josh some of what you have done at the Capitol,just as a visual example that might be helpful.Travis said I am frantically looking for those photos.We had some nice final photos done.And I'm struggling to find them,but I'll keep looking.Catherine said are there any other discussion points on this item.Travis said I would agree.I would like to see something that's more in keeping with the style of building,taking into account the cabinets are not in keeping.And I would recommend something that's a little bit more functional,rather than the metal circle that you talk through. Because that covers your mouth and makes it harder to understand what's being said.So,I have mentioned a functional recommendation.And I'd like to see it be more fitting with the rest of the building. Catherine said Josh,does that sound reasonable,and you can work with your group to kind of revise the proposal,or at least consider alternate ideas,and then we can discuss it again in a month.Josh said yes,I think I know what this committee is asking for.Catherine said I also like the idea of a frameless,simple glass system because then we're not getting into a particular style or a material.So,if we could do something like that and fit it within your budget.It doesn't necessarily have to have an oak frame around it. I think that if it is frameless that might work just fine. I think what I'm concerned about is the heavy aluminum frame around it. Agenda Item 4:Other Building Projects or Updates Catherine said okay so moving on to our next agenda,are there any announcements from anybody in the group or any other points of discussion on other projects. Okay well,our next meeting will be held on December 9,2024. May I please have a motion to adjourn the meeting. Steve Burt motioned to adjourn the meeting. Travis Sheppard Seconded the motion. The Committee unanimously voted to adjourn. Catherine said and as we've completed the agenda,and received a motion and a second,I declare this meeting as adjourned. 5